UB: स्वधर्ममपि चावेक्ष्य न विकम्पितुमर्हसि। धर्म्याद्धि युद्धाछ्रेयोऽन्यत्क्षत्रियस्य नविद्यते।।2.31।।

2.31 Further, considering also your स्वधर्म, it does not befit you to waver. For, to a क्षत्रिय, there is no greater good than a धर्मयुद्ध.

यदृच्छया चोपपन्नं स्वर्गद्वारमपावृतम्। सुखिनः क्षत्रियाः पार्थ लभन्तेयुद्धमीदृशम्।।2.32।।

2.32 Happy are the क्षत्रिय, O अर्जुन, to whom a war like this comes of its own accord; it opens the gate to स्वर्ग.

अथ चैत्त्वमिमं धर्म्यं संग्रामं न करिष्यसि। ततः स्वधर्मं कीर्तिं च हित्वापापमवाप्स्यसि।।2.33।।

2.33 But if you do not fight this धर्म संग्राम, you will be turning away from your स्वधर्म and honoured position, and will be incurring पाप.

अकीर्तिं चापि भूतानि कथयिष्यन्तितेऽव्ययाम्। संभावितस्यचाकीर्तिर्मरणादतिरिच्यते।।2.34।।

2.34 Further, people will speak ill of you for all time, and for one accustomed to be honoured, dishonour is worse than death.

भयाद्रणादुपरतं मंस्यन्ते त्वां महारथाः। येषांच त्वं बहुमतो भूत्वा यास्यसिलाघवम्।।2.35।।

2.35 The महारथी will think that you have fled from battle in fear. These men who held you in high esteem will speak lightly of you now.

अवाच्यवादांश्च बहून् वदिष्यन्तितवाहिताः। निन्दन्तस्तव सामर्थ्यंततो दुःखतरं नु किम्।।2.36।।

2.36. Slandering your ability, the enemies will talk of you many sayings that should not be talked of. Is there anything more painful than that?

हतो वा प्राप्स्यसि स्वर्गं जित्वा वाभोक्ष्यसे महीम्। तस्मादुत्तिष्ठकौन्तेय युद्धायकृतनिश्चयः।।2.37।

2.37 If slain, you shall win स्वर्गं; or if victorious, you shall enjoy the earth. Therefore, arise, O अर्जुन, do resolve to fight.

UB: While the arguments made here seem pragmatic, श्रीकृष्ण makes an unusual statement that अर्जुन will incur पाप if he avoids the युद्ध. Since the usual narrative is that a good action will give पुण्य and a bad one पाप, श्रीकृष्ण suggests here that avoiding a धर्मयुद्ध will incur पाप. This aspect will be dwelt upon later but suffice to state here that if the motivation for an action is fear, favour, greed, excessive compassion, etc., such an action will generate पाप even though the action may look noble from outside.

VB: I was also intrigued by Krishna provoking Arjun by saying what others will think about him. Why should Arjun care? He should be true to his mind, dharma (another scary word).  I thought you are strong if you stick to your principles. I had exact same question about paapa. Why is it paapa? This action is not motivated by any of the things you mentioned

UB: Valid points VB. Over here, one must realize that a गुरु-शिष्य relationship is a very special one where the शिष्य confides ALL in the गुरु and the latter knows his शिष्य very well. Many times, we may say that we do not care about the world but is that really so? We may selectively apply this Maxim but most of us indeed care. In case of Arjuna, Krishna knew that Arjuna cares about the world and has huge appeal of his image in front of others. He may have uttered many noble words in the 1st chapter that he will not have any issues living like a beggar but these are statements made with emotion but lack conviction. So Krishna probably used this logic TOO since he knew it will have an appeal with Arjuna. Gurus will never say – do not care a damn about others since those others are also part of Guru’s scheme of things. This is the way I see it. Having said that, this is not to be seen as a core argument but one of the many arguments being given to Arjuna. It is a valid spot made by you VB. As for Paapa, I just gave a hint about it. I will elaborate on this later once one more concept कर्म is introduced tom.

RS: UB – A friend of mine says, the concepts of heaven and hell come from monotheistic religions mainly Christianity. Same with sin – very Christian. Is that correct? I read 20 years ago a book whose central premise was that due to our oral tradition, the folks (Brahmins) that taught the poems have taken

— Liberty by adding shlokas that they thought were good

— Errors of memory

— Errors during learning

— Brahmins deliberately added shlokas glorifying themselves.

According took this book, the original Gita was only 80-90 Shlokas long. Over time, it changed from a Kshatriya oriented document to a Brahminical document. Have you heard this?

UB: Hahahaha – yes. I heard a lot about these narratives. Some were written by early Indologists and these types of stuff continue to be written by Hinduism experts in Columbia and Chicago. While there may indeed be such texts of this type here and there, but broadly it is the twisted mind of these Indologists working overdrive 😀😀 Indian texts do have the concept of पाप which is translated as sin in English. All Puranas do refer to places like heaven and hell. Each place is described in detail giving an idea of the kind of life one can lead there post death. These description seem quite exotic and seem more like parallel universes where alternate life is possible. There is however one big difference between Indian and other texts – Indian texts describe these places as temporary abodes and once the specific Karma is exhausted, one has to again live a human life to attain the Oneness with ultimate. In other texts, all you have is a single shot to life and depending on the judgement of God, one is either permanently consigned to heaven or permanently to hell

UB: सुखदुःखे समे कृत्वा लाभालाभौजयाजयौ।ततो युद्धाय युज्यस्वनैवं पापमवाप्स्यसि।।2.38।।

2.38. Viewing alike, सुख & दुख, लाभ and loss, जय and defeat, you should get ready for the युद्ध. Thus you will not incur पाप.

एषा तेऽभिहिता सांख्ये बुद्धिर्योगेत्विमां श्रृणु। बुद्ध्यायुक्तो यया पार्थकर्मबन्धं प्रहास्यसि।।2.39।।

2.39 This बुद्धि concerning the self has been imparted to you with regard to सांख्य. Now listen to this with regard to योग, by following which you will get rid of the bondage of कर्म.

UB: 1st line is a simple masterpiece advice signifying attitude to be cultivated towards any action. 2nd line requires some explaining – वेद have ४ parts – the मंत्र, the ब्राह्मण, the अरणयक and the उपनिषद. The 1st two are called as कर्मकांड and last two as ज्ञानकांड. Indian texts broadly prescribe 2 broad paths to truth – the कर्म path for people oriented towards action (also referred to as योग) and सांख्य path for people oriented to intellectualization. This mimics the approach to ज्ञान in real life too – to learn how to build a ship, one can either read or use imagination OR one can learn by actually building one. श्रीकृष्ण says here that thus far, he has used सांख्य approach and will now move to make arguments from a कर्म perspective. कर्म also is translated as rituals and thus also understood as ritualistic path. Which path is better to achieve the परमात्मा had been hugely debated as a topic for many centuries till the very famous debate of आदि शंकर & मंडन मिश्र closed this debate permanently (though now and then, it keeps rearing its head again with Tilak favouring कर्म & Aurobindo favouring ज्ञान).

UB: Another key phrase used here is bondage of कर्म. What is this bondage? This is a very very key & unique tenet common across all Indian religions. If one imagines having a उपाधि (body-mind complex) of the Sun or the trees, one can say that we are doing धर्म of Sun if we emit light and धर्म of trees if we give fruits & flowers. Even if such a उपाधि harms another (like excessive Sun harming a person or a tree giving poisonous fruits), one cannot blame them since they are merely doing their धर्म. पशु actions  similarly will not deepen bondage since their actions may be taken as being in tune with their उपाधि लक्षण. However, actions done by humans that are not in tune with our उपाधि लक्षण are called as अधर्म or पाप and the person acquires something called bondage of कर्म. धार्मिक actions thus mean those actions that are performed by the Universal or परमात्मा if She or He or It were in our उपाधि. On the other hand, if our action is limited and not performed as a परमात्मा would have done if She was in our उपाधि, such action takes us away from our real nature of Universality and binds us to living a limited lower life. If this bondage is not cleared up before our last day, we are leaving incomplete. Hence, Indian traditions postulate that an incomplete Jiva has to move on into another उपाधि since the goal is to return back to our core Universal state and one cannot suddenly stop at the state of incompletion.

PK: I like that you said She 😃😃 Seriously though interesting .. This is connected to agami karma and prarabdha for all mortals? Or am I getting it all mixed up and not connected?

UB: Yes – this will lead to those ideas. The seeds for that direction is being laid now. As for SHE, ever since the idea of Divine as a She entered my mind and I read and heard more about the conception of Devi, I have benefited much more than the conception of the Divine as a boring male 😀. But I am glad you noticed 👍 👍 😀

PK: 😃😃👍👍

RS: सुखदुःखे समे कृत्वा लाभालाभौजयाजयौ।ततो युद्धाय युज्यस्वनैवं पापमवाप्स्यसि।।2.38।।

लाभालाभौ जयाजयौ – Does anyone know enough Sanskrit to break these world so i see how we get profit/loss, victory/defeat? In my ignorance, it looks to me more like profit/profit, victory/victory.

UB: I guess संधि rules apply here since लाभ means profit and since लाभालाभौ has been used, it may mean लाभ + अलाभ. Also, since two words have been combined, they have used द्विवचन meaning that लाभ + अलाभ becomes लाभालाभौ.

‪RS: Thanks. I did not know Alaabh was a word.

UB: PK – in the Shastras, I see a difference between feminism and female or masculine and male. My theory is raw and I need to still probe further – all of life is a combination of masculine and feminine. Males as well as females have both tendencies though if masculinity is dominant, they turn out as males and if feminity is dominant, one turns out as a female. Devi is extolled not as a female but as feminine and Vishnu as masculine and through this approach, we are meant to reach the conclusion that both emanate from the same state that is beyond feminine and masculine. But I need to do more study to probe further on these lines.

PA: The idea about each of us having the male and female energy is definitively true and one being born as male of female depending upon the dominant energy – I have also heard this somewhere else

VB: What about the physical body then?

PA: Interesting concept with upadhi lakshan. Acting under your supposed dharma and not shirking from it does not incur paapa. This is the most challenging part as each of us inside have in each and every decisive moments have this inner calling which directs us to take an action whereas the mind of as a byproduct of conditioning asks us to take another path! For me that’s the fundamental dilemma to overcome!! And recognizing the difference between your intuition (divine will) and your ego Buddhi. The concept of doing duty but as a result of duty to incur violence on another is the most challenging aspects – what I think that this war that The Lord is asking is actually to be fought with one own self each and every moment. Got the answer from your previous comment UB!! Thanks!!! avoiding a धर्मयुद्ध will incur पाप. This aspect will be dwelt upon later but suffice to state here that if the motivation for an action is fear, favour, greed, excessive compassion, etc., such an action will generate पाप even though the action may look noble from outside.

UB: PA – the points you raised are fully valid. It is easy to theorize this but very difficult to comprehend. I guess that is part of spiritual learning.

UB: VB – a balloon takes whatever shape it takes based on how wind is blown into it. Outer shape is a mere manifestation of inner energy. What therefore matters is what is inside that creates a particular shape outside.

PA: The by-product of this dharma yudda was the victory for pandavas and getting back their kingdom which they deserved or rightfully belonged to them. However finally this was also a material gain in some way which is in any way not Tat. Wasn’t is possible to just let go of this desire to possess this kingdom? The depression of pandavas mentioned in others texts is never highlighted or talked about which should probably have been the most important aspect to remember!!!! Finally people Just florid the win of good over evil. Today in this world unfortunately this is what is again and again practiced in all directions in the name of holy wars and they seem to be convinced that they are doing their dharma!!!

PA: Why wasn’t letting go an option for the pandavas and also there was a degree of deceit and kapat used along the way to win the war!! I am sure as most of us normal mortals would not be in a position to take these precarious decisions and still say it’s our dharma!!

UB: I guess we need to see the war in the context of MAHABHARATA – when they were kids, there was daily insult meted out to them and attempted murder on Bhima, they kept quiet. Then they were sent to a wax palace with an attempt to murder, they kept quiet. Their wife was disrobed, they kept quiet. They were banished to a desert country, they kept quiet and created Indraprastha. They were made to do 12 year forest stay and one year as servants, they stoically adhered to it. Then they asked for kingdom and gave POA to Krishna that even if he gets peace, they will accept it. Arrest attempt on Krishna was made. I guess all recourse available was exhausted. Tolerating Adharma is thus not Dharma – it is pacifism. A pacifist will not achieve oneness with Krishna is what Krishna is stating here. Yes – people can misuse which they will do anyway but one cannot change the meaning of Dharma for this purpose. I guess this is how one is being pushed to think here – but I agree that this is tough.

PA: Yes UB That’s true what you are saying is totally right but finally the war also killed millions of people or soldiers on each side who really were not at fault or had nothing to do with this enmity. That’s a tough decision to take finally

VB: I agree with PA. Moreover, why quest for anything when we know this is a temporary state.

PK: To confirm a point made earlier biologically as well we all have both testesteone and estrogen … Make sex is determined by the presence of a gene in Y which promotes male sex…

‪RS: VB – I do not have any proof for this, but life militates against passivity. Here I am talking about 4 billion years of life trying to procreate, fighting claw and tooth to survive, branch into every niche available.

PK: I concur that this point is the hardest – when does one let go and when is one convinced that violence is justified? All wars today are justified by the ones starting it with this premise – that it is the right thing to do

‪RS: We as humans cannot cease to strive however much our intellect may tell us, but our gene drive is strong too, having survived for 4B years using the “strive hardest” strategy. PK – did not get your point

PK: Striving for life I agree – we are genetically programmed for that. Desire for violence and annihilation of those that are different/ thin different? Is that programmed? Not sure

VB: RS, I feel war is required as a last solution.  But I am trying to understand how it can be justified by what we are discussing till now. That is oneness, temporary state etc

PK: The point I am making us similar to PA – who justifies a war? In MAHABHARATA we have Krishna

‪RS: Ok

PK: In real life with mortals who is Krishna? 😃

PA: Yes PK this is for me the hardest part of puzzle

PA: Absolutely!!!

VB: PK, I agree about hormone and genes. But I do not think a human has the choice to be what they want

PA: That’s where the idea of the divine residing in us and guiding our way but we each know the programmed mind giving all the reasons not to take the path

VB: The sex is decide by genes. What comes first, mind to decide what to be or coming together of yy or xy chromosomes

PK: we cannot determine genetic sex but we can modulate behaviours – scientifically different fences in testosterone levels exist and low levels are characterized with less aggression in males. All men are not equally masculine – although now I am going to get brickbats😃😃 Seriously though I agree with you that pacifism is not necessarily passive

‪RS: I see you are differentiating between passivism and passiveness. What is the difference?

VB: Too many threads and cross talk😀

PK: Just need some time to figure it out VB 😃😃. I was refuting UB that pacifism is passive – I am not sure if that is necessarily true

VB: It is certainly not passive.

PK: I tend to believe that violence suits those who have nothing to lose … In general pacifism (non- violence) to me is analogous to ” do no harm” rule in medicine

VB: Hmm

PK: Sometimes that rule in medicine dies kill patients while we are figuring the right thing to do .., other doc’s will refute this and say do something .. Same conundrum.. Which path to follow?

VB: So, is non-cooperation movement pacifism?  No

PK: It is an effective form if pacifism -yes in my opinion

VB: Ahimsa does not mean pacifism. Gandhiji fought a war. His weapon was non violence

PK: Justifying violence requires a high bar – that’s my2 cents

VB: Agree

PK: I agree with you fully – he got ahimsa (non- violent war). Nothing wrong with waging a war if it is non- violent (with one self, changing society etc)

VB: About this point. No nothing

HB: I seriously question the concept of dharmayudh

UB: VB – this is a good point. Why do anything is a valid Q but do note that DOING something is our nature. This is where concept of उपाधि लक्षण is key. We will still watch movies, go to restaurants, play games, etc. Imagine ourselves having the body of a person struck on a road inside a car that has no brakes and cannot be stopped. What do we do? We have to find a road that has a steep incline which can help stop the car. While all know that driving is not necessary at all, we are within an उपाधि that knows movement only. Worse, we may be on a road that is going downhill or on a potholed road (meaning each and every person has a different उपाधि लक्षण) and thereby, we need to continue movement in tune with our Upadhi but select an upward moving road (meaning the direction of our life is in our hands). If one judges all actions by being wedded to one line – “nonviolence is bad”, one is being ideological instead of Dharmic. It is akin to following Ten Commandments since it is written in the Bible without looking at the deeper principles behind the commandments. When Draupati was being disrobed, even wise people missed the violation of Dharma in front of their own eyes but arguing whether Y can legally put a wager on his wife after he himself had lost or is D legally empowered to disrobe her since she is his slave. When people get too much into ideology and get wedded to these lines, it is possible that even greats like Bhishma and Drona miss the obvious violation of Dharma. So one needs to be careful not to get ideologically wedded to noble sounding lines. Hakka & Bukka were guided by a spiritually endowed Guru Vidyaranya to fight the Sultanate, Shivaji again by Swami Ramdas and Guru Gobind Singh fought the Mughals. When Dharma is being violated, one has to fight. Violence is, in a sense, done by all of when we kill animals or plants for food or trample upon ants, kill mosquitoes, kill rats in laboratories but we do not feel sad because we somehow think they are lesser life forms while Krishna is stating that He is present in all life forms. Dharma needs to be thus seen in a wider context but not from the narrow lens of a seemingly noble ideology. This will get into MAHABHARATA and may be a digression but I am answering since this has been raised. Firstly, it is true that Y loved to gamble. And he lost a lot on account of this trait. Post the first loss, धृतराष्ट्र returned the kingdom back to Y. And धृतराष्ट्र invited Y again to gamble. All told him not to go and he personally also did not want to go especially after learning a lesson last time. But he went nevertheless since धृतराष्ट्र was his father and he could not refuse father’s ask. So he went again and as per terms, he was out 13 years and then staked his claim for the kingdom rightfully as per earlier agreement

‪RS: VB/PK – I agree the pacifism had a role like Gandhi used it to fight an unusual war. The debate amongst historians is whether this would/could have worked against Japanese or a German had they been our masters. If the enemy does not mind butchering 6m in a gas chamber, how hard would it have been to destroy the entire Congress leadership? I think the tool was the right tool against a particular enemy. Against Japanese and Germans in 1940s, total war the only option. Truman agonized over the decision. His choice was several thousand American against Japanese live. No one must be forced to make this choice. But he did. Note that Japan did not surrender immediately after Hiroshima. There even was a failed coup by some leaders to continue the war. In my summary, there is no one answer to the question. It can only be answered by living the decision.

UB: HB, as per Dharma rules framed at that time, kids from a wife LEGALLY wedded to a man belong to the man. This is given in the Dharmasutras and she took her’s husband’s OK and bore the kids. Same way, it is Vyasa who fathered D, Vidura and Pandu but they were still deemed as Kauravas. They are therefore, as per the rules of that era, kids of Pandu only. We should judge people by the laws which they follow and not our own modern Dristi.

UB: RS 👍👍

HB: I agree, why bomb Japan when the war was actually between European countries UB, I do know the rule prevalent need to be honored, and yet Mbh refers to Kunti getting 5 children through magic mantra

VB: I can never accept bombing of Japan by USA. It was an act of arrogance. Anyways, I am digressing. I agree RS abt non-violence not being applicable everywhere

‪RS: Maybe. I wish sometimes, I could be a fly on the wall when importance decisions that shape future are being made.

HB – I am sure you know this all, but the war was between Axis made up of Japan, Germany, and Italy, and Allies. Japan declared war on Britain early and overran most of South East Asia and came almost to North East India. America got involved when Japan made a preemptive air strike on Hawaii. So it was not strictly a European war

HB: Nonviolence must be the first approach. Agree, but too harsh. Considering the fact that Hawaii has lot of people from Japanese origin, even today. UB, coming back to Dharma rules, so u really think all people from different corners of India believed and followed it uniformly. There is some work of Ekvira karve that suggests there were distinctive differences not just in life styles, food habits but also beliefs. Yuganta also indicates not just Kunti but also draupadi were ridiculed

‪RS: I agree, that ahimsa must be the first choice, always. There is a quote from a science fiction book, by Asimov that I like a lot, “Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent”.

HB – who is Yuganta? Name of book

‪RS: The foundation series, first book. The quote is made by an important character, “Salvor Hardin”, in the early chapters.

UB: नेहाभिक्रमनाशोऽस्ति प्रत्यवायो नविद्यते। स्वल्पमप्यस्य धर्मस्यत्रायते महतो भयात्।।2.40।।

2.40 Here, there is no loss of effort, nor any accrual of evil. Even a little of this धर्म (कर्मयोग) protects a man from the great fear.

व्यवसायात्मिका बुद्धिरेकेहकुरुनन्दन। बहुशाखा ह्यनन्ताश्चबुद्धयोऽव्यवसायिनाम्।।2.41।।

2.41 In this (कर्मयोग), O अर्जुन, the resolute mind is one-pointed; the minds of the irresolute are many-branched and endless.

UB: Here श्रीकृष्ण is stating that in an act done with कर्मयोग orientation, there is no loss of effort or accrual of bondage of कर्म. This seems odd since our normal view in the world is that a certain action will be deemed as a success only if we achieve the fruit. भगवान does not even refer to the fruit here as a relevant criteria for success. Further, he adds that there is no loss of effort meaning that such an action will not be deemed as a wasteful action from a spiritual perspective (irrespective of the result of the action). And the bonus is – there is no accrual of कर्म bondage. Do note that whole of 3rd chapter focuses exclusively on spiritual meaning of the words ‘action’ and ‘inaction’. A seed is being laid here.  Of course, a prerequisite is to possess a strong mind that has a high level of concentration ability and not a weak / fickle one.

‪RS: Nice shloka, I can see that i like कर्मयोग. Now if I can only be detached from success or failure.

UB: 😀 HB – should our discussion get into whether all of India followed Vedic Dharma? That is the route taken by Western Indologists where they focussed on history within these stories rather than debating Dharma contained in these stories. Since the people of this book followed Dharma, we must evaluate them as per their own chosen rules. Kunti had 3 kids and Madri had two. This decision was taken by wives with mutual consent of their husband and other ऋषि who lived close to them. While people during that time have indeed ridiculed them, many ऋषि, कृष्ण and other wise people have always extolled them. MBH narrates both perspectives. I do not therefore see this as अधर्म.

PA: UB what does it mean when The Lord says – Even a little of this Karma Yoga protects from the Great fear? What does this imply ?

UB: PA – Essentially, action done with an attitude of कर्मयोग may seem little but only such actions will take us closer to तत्. Actions done without this attitude are perishable and will take us away from तत् and hence full of fear. We will discuss the meaning of what कर्मयोग stands for from day after tomorrow. It will be a tough topic to assimilate – i expect long debates 😀

PA: Cool!! UB

UB: यामिमां पुष्पितां वाचंप्रवदन्त्यविपश्िचतः।वेदवादरताः पार्थ नान्यदस्तीतिवादिनः।।2.42।। कामात्मानः स्वर्गपराजन्मकर्मफलप्रदाम्।क्रियाविशेषबहुलां भोगैश्वर्यगतिंप्रति।।2.43।।

भोगैश्वर्यप्रसक्तानांतयापहृतचेतसाम्।व्यवसायात्मिका बुद्धिः समाधौ नविधीयते।।2.44।।

2.42 – 2.44 O! पार्थ, the unwise, who rejoice in the letter of the वेद, say, ‘There is nothing else.’ They are full only of भोग and they hanker for स्वर्ग. They speak flowery words which offer rebirth as the fruit of work. They look upon the वेद as consisting entirely of varied rites for the attainment of भोग & ऐश्वर्य. Those who cling so to भोग & ऐश्वर्य are attracted by that speech and are unable to develop the resolute will of a concentrated mind.

त्रैगुण्यविषया वेदा निस्त्रैगुण्योभवार्जुन। निर्द्वन्द्वो नित्यसत्त्वस्थोनिर्योगक्षेम आत्मवान्।।2.45।।

2.45. The वेद bind by means of the त्रिगुण [Hence] O अर्जुन, you must be free from the त्रिगुण, acquire निर्द्वन्द्व (free from dualities of right/wrong, good/bad, etc); be नित्यसत्त्वस्थ  (be established in सत्वगुण); be निर्योगक्षेम (free from idea of acquisition & preservation) and be आत्मवान् (be immersed within one’s own आत्मा or one who is a master of himself).

यावानर्थ उदपाने सर्वतःसंप्लुतोदके। तावान्सर्वेषु वेदेषुब्राह्मणस्य विजानतः।।2.46।।

2.46. What portion in a reservoir, flooded with water everywhere, is useful [for a man in thirst], that much portion [alone] in all the वेद is useful for an intelligent student of the वेद.

UB: This looks like a castigation of वेद though it is not so. वेद have prescribed यज्ञ for material needs apart from Adhyatma, e.g., Progeny, wealth, long life, etc. However, while the needy may perform such यज्ञ to fulfill their needs, many people immersed in त्रिगण undertake यज्ञ ONLY to fulfill such needs just like people today also think of God only to fulfill petty desires. However, wise people have limited need for such kind of यज्ञ of वेद – while they may perform these यज्ञ when NEEDED, they are not struck in these only. A person working in an ice-cream factory will not salivate for ice cream but will only take it to beat hot weather. Wise person will also thus do यज्ञ only if necessary but will not base his entire life after such pleasures only.  Concept of त्रिगण will also be elaborated later.

UB: Fear is related to bondage of Karma which I had mentioned earlier causing us to get caught in the cycle of birth and death. This will come up again and again in future verses

PK: Again my difficulty is this – what is need vs petty desire? Is the desire to succeed in your work need / karmayog esp if the work is beneficial for you and other Or is it a petty desire for material success (which could be a component) ? It’s so hard to be one or the other – sometimes it’s both I think

UB: Wait for tom when two glorious verses will be shared. Then we can discuss.

HB: Thanks, UB

UB: कर्मण्येवाधिकारस्ते मा फलेषुकदाचन। मा कर्मफलहेतुर्भूर्मा तेसङ्गोऽस्त्वकर्मणि।।2.47।।

2.47. Let your अधिकार lie on कर्म alone and never on the फल; you should never be a cause for the fruits of action; let not your संग be to अकर्म.

योगस्थः कुरु कर्माणि सङ्गंत्यक्त्वा धनञ्जय। सिद्ध्यसिद्ध्योःसमो भूत्वा समत्वं योगउच्यते।।2.48।।

2.48 Perform all कर्म being fully steadfast in कर्मयोग and abandon longing for the outcome of such action. Perform works viewing success and failure with an even mind. Evenness of mind is said to be Yoga.

UB: Two glorious verses that convey the very core of spiritual attitude to be lived by as per Indian texts; it is of course of source of confusion too. You have full अधिकार over your own कर्म – be fully immersed in your own कर्म. But you must work with an attitude that the outcome of your कर्म may/ may not happen your way. Ex – do long jump with full enthu to cross a target of, say, 4m. If success comes, accept it and if it does not, accept this too and try again. If long jump is not your forte since your उपाधि is not tuned for certain sports, do not waste time and instead pursue actions that match your innate उपाधि orientation. The Q of what कर्म to pursue should not ideally require self-convincing; if you know yourself well, you will know your own natural urges. Then pursue such actions like the Sun that gives light to the best of its ability daily or like a full laden mango tree gives out the best mangoes daily – both do not benefit personally from the light or mangoes but still give out their best. They are not doing social service – they are just being themselves. Rivers give water though it has no use of the water. Actions must be to fulfil NEEDS like that of a lion which kills only when hungry and not for pleasure/ desire. So how do we distinguish b/w NEED VS DESIRE –  Desire for self-preservation is not desire,  desire of a married person to give best to family is not desire, desire to excel in work is not desire – all these are उपाधि धर्म that must be discharged in our roles and cannot be likened as desire for fruit.  So, take care of parents with joy, entertain spouse & kids with joy, work in office with joy, take care of your own health with passion – BUT NOT FOR SELFISH JOY BUT BECAUSE THE UNIVERSAL WITHIN YOU WOULD HAVE DONE THE SAME. As Osho says, श्रीकृष्ण was dancing with many गोपी but each गोपी felt that श्रीकृष्ण was dancing WITH HER ONLY. Do not bring YOU when you do the work you do. The moment YOU do charity, the moment YOU help others, the moment YOU feel happy when one is praising you and get upset when someone insults YOU, one can see that ego is at work within us – this is a recipe for disaster and means all our actions become tainted actions. Instead, do action because any evolved person of this world would have done the same best action had he/she been in your place. Someone may argue – if fruit is not guaranteed, why do action at all? Hence, श्रीकृष्ण says that do not resort to laziness which is a NO-NO. Cut grass with joy, cook with joy, work with joy, read with joy, play with joy. But be careful – you are doing all these because you are in a उपाधि and thus within a role that necessitates doing all these actions. But if you get too upset or too happy with the फल, you are bringing your ego and this taints the actions and you fall. Perform actions with a mind like that of a 60 year old who is playing with 10 year old kids – he enjoys but does not get carried away by loss or gain. Joyful actions performed WITHOUT LONGING will take you towards श्रीकृष्ण and slowly, you are on your way to become तत् or श्रीकृष्ण HIMSELF. But should we not enjoy for ourselves – watch a game, be with friends, watch movies, etc? The answer is – did श्रीकृष्ण not enjoy life? Did He not play, indulge in pranks, sing & dance? Did He DESIRE to be a सारथी? He defeated many kings but did he install himself as a king in those kingdoms? He does not NEED to do anything for joy – BEING JOYFUL IS IN OWN NATURE AND ALL ACTIONS ARE DONE JOYFULLY. One is therefore asked read the life of श्रीकृष्ण not for पुण्य but to learn about HIS life as a case study of how a human being can live. If you see HIM as God, one will not learn but read about HIM to determine how an evolved being must conduct oneself. To conclude – what is कर्मयोग – it is to work with समत्वम् (equanimity). Actions done with अधिकार (since अधिकार brings conviction and we must thus fully take ownership of our actions) with समत्वम् as an attitude will take one towards श्रीकृष्ण state and actions done with ego will turn one into असुर (even though they may be noble looking). समत्वम् योग उच्यते।।।।।

VN: Beautifully explained UB🙏🏻 I remember once complaining to my brother about how boring it is to do the same daily chores. …cooking cleaning going to work looking ate the kids. ..and being forced to do what you don’t like brings so much of frustration. …what he told me then changed my attitude forever. …He more or less said the same thing. ..whenever you do anything watch yourself doing it, see yourself enjoying the actions you are doing it may be anything like a simple action of sweeping the floor but try and watch yourself if you can do that if you can see the soul that is doing that action and enjoying it you will never get bored of doing anything. …I tried to follow this. ..I may not Jane been very successful at it but yes it did help me a lot. Enjoyment in doing anything comes from within it does not depend on what you are doing…. like a small child who can be happy in doing anything.

UB: VN 👍

PA: Mindfulness and being present in what you do 👍👍🙏🙏

HB: UB 2.47 explained beautifully. I sometimes feel that Gita teachings are so logical and rational, that it is almost impossible to achieve the state

UB: You are right – they seem impossible. But if we read stories of Saints with this eye, we can get practical examples of people who have indeed lived this life.

HB: Yes, at least we can strive to achieve that state, I think there will be more peace and well being

VB: Nothing to argue. I feel I follow 2.47 almost. But I do wonder… What is wrong in feeling happy with an outcome or aspiring for an outcome, if the outcome is going to help people? Example, all scientists, inventors felt deeply sad when their experiments failed. It goaded them, inspired them. Some wanted to be the first one to invent a drug, make money etc. If not for their selfish efforts, thousands would not have enjoyed their labour. So, is selfish interest always wrong?

PA: True VB. What I also think that education system /work system is focussed on the results – So right from the beginning this has been ingrained into our brain. Which forms powerful grooves on which the old music plays automatically. The challenge is how to create these new grooves.

UB: Maybe there is another way to put the same message – it is very good to be selfish. In fact, the more selfish, the better. It is just that the definition of self must expand from one individual to one family to one nation to one humanity to one universal life forms to the whole universal expression. So be selfish – but choose yourself too from amongst the variety available.

PA: 👍👍. Yes UB ideally yes. But pain joy of your own kith and kin brings you sadness and happiness in comparison to people rejoicing or suffering in let’s say Baghdad. The challenge is to develop such a drishti. But if we sincerely believe in the consequences of moving away from the Tatha then I suppose one will develop or rather attempt to develop such a attitude

UB: Agree – it is not easy.

PK: I also think a key point is figuring out how one puts one’s best effort when sometimes you know it’s probably not useful … Sometimes for me the thought that there is a probability that something will work goads me … I see this conundrum with teaching kids too .. Effort is important I say …do your best … but a part of me realizes that worldly life runs on results.. This dichotomy and how to resolve it is probably my task … The saints who renounced life – maybe that’s easy; dieting when there is good to tempt you is easier than dieting/ fasting when everyone around you is gorging – for me at least 😃

PK: But I loved the verses … Really .need to figure how to make this work. I knew you were gonna say that VB.. Thinking about mystical matters is hard work dude!

VB: So is what I did right? Waiting for message and not being happy when it did not come in time?  This was rhetorical question.

PK: Still thinking … 😃😃😃

PK: You and me VB I think are sorta in similar places of evolution … 😃😃😃

VB: Certainly we are. We tend to agree on most. I love my decadent life while yearning/following some other principles. Temptation is the biggest culprit

PK: Amen … We are fools that seldom differ or great minds that think alike …the former is more likely. Especially in this August company

VB: I prefer great foolish minds

UB: 😀😀😀 This engagement is far more entertaining.

PK: I also think of it like enjoying the game … Knowing the consequences .., I wonder what the Gita says about that. But still wanting to know what happens after the game. Or a better way to play the game 😃😃. The worldly life and all its sensual pleasures / temptations being the game

VB: UB was expecting debates and here we are in a mutual admiration talk. How trivial can we get?

PK: 😃😃😃… This group is the only one who will put up with our juvenile thoughts!

UB: Indeed – I thought the ace science people will throw some nukes here 😀

PK: Baki phenk denge .., agle janam me aao 😃😃😃. The nuke is really how to do this and still live a worldly life … In that context saints offer little help 😃😃😃

VB: Scientific objections? Difficult to imagine what they could be.

PK: I want my wine and my nirvana you see 😃😃

‪RS: 48 hours of Sanskrit class for me. Will come out of my cave on Monday. The two best shlokas come on a day when I have “Kinchit Samayaha”

PK: Go immerse yourself in Sanskrit and then come poke holes in my theory RS! But I still I truly want to learn about what else is there – sometimes I wonder if I am a hypocrite? But I tell myself even treading these waters is probably better than avoiding them or worse being ignorant of their existence

UB: RS – there is a site called Gita Grammar – this should be of immense help to you – http://gita-grammar.blogspot.in/?m=1. I have found it accidentally but it is fantastic – hats off to the person who did it

‪RS: UB – Thanks for the link. Will save for later.

PK – Yes, you are a hypocrite. I will explain later if I am free. Peace till then. 😀. See – I knew that you will agree my best friend … I will wait patiently 😃😃😃. To have a forum like this is price-less.This seems to always ring true to me …

VB: Deep…liked it simple but profound

UB: PK – all saints did not abandon the world. You had Eknath, Tukaram, Ramakrishna Paramahamsa, Annamayya, Shyama Sastry, etc who were married, had kids, did jobs and were still called Saints.

UB: Simple indeed 👍

PK: Recommend a good book written by one of the above please UB!

UB: The one I like the best is by a guy Justin Abbot who translated a book in Marathi titled Bhakta Vijaya authored by Mahipati on the Saints of Maharashtra.

PK: Ok- will try to find it!

UB: Available free on the net. Best is if you can find someone who talks about these topics in local language – like Krishna Premi. The impact is many times more than books.

VB: UB, tukaram movie did not show him having a happy married life. He was so devoted that he did not deliver on his husband duties. True?

PA: The Sikh tradition also asks us to practice spirituality while living the life of a householder – living in the world

UB: You are right VB – he was married but his wife did struggle to keep up with his mannerisms. Having said that, while she was very vocal owing to day to day frustrations, she also took care of him. The scene where his wife goes up the mountain and feeds him food brings tears into the eyes. Movie is based on Mahipati’s book only. But if you want an ideal husband wife jodi, Eknath fits the bill very well.

UB: PA – I must confess that I have been unable to read much about Sikh Guru Tradition. Very keen to fill this gap. If one looks at most ideal Rishis in the Puranas, all of them are married with kids too.

PA: Was in the Isckon temple in Belgium – absolutely heavenly! The practice of chanting the Hare Kirshna mahamantra and crossing the worldly ocean appeals to me personally

VN: True that you don’t have to abandon the world to live like Saint or practice spirituality. In fact the beauty of spiritual learning is that you can have a taste of the eternal peace and still go on smoothly with the wordly life. The material thing don’t matter much you can actually enjoy each aspect of life and experience not only own happiness but others too. At least that is what I am trying to achieve.

PA: For example in one of the previous shlokas you had mentioned about how precious human life is and it’s of once chance to merge with Krishna

PA: आसा महला ५ ॥

aasaa mehlaa 5.

Aasaa, Fifth Mehl:

भई परापित मानुख दहुे रीआ ॥

bha-ee paraapat maanukh dayhuree-aa.

This human body has been given to you.

गोिबद िमलण की इह तेरी बरीआ ॥

gobind milan kee ih tayree baree-aa.

This is your chance to meet the Lord of the Universe.

PA: This is a paragraph from the evening prayers recited daily

PA: अविर काज तेरै िकतै न काम ॥

avar kaaj tayrai kitai na kaam.

Nothing else will work.

िमलु साधसंगित भजु के वल नाम ॥१॥

mil saaDhsangat bhaj kayval naam. ||1||

Join the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy; vibrate and meditate on the Jewel of the Naam. ||1||

सरंजािम लागु भवजल तरन कै ॥

saraNjaam laag bhavjal taran kai.

Make every effort to cross over this terrifying world-ocean.

जनमु ि􏰁था जात रंिग माइआ कै ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥

janam baritha jaat rang maa-i-aa kai. ||1|| rahaa-o.

You are squandering this life uselessly in the love of Maya

UB: Who is Ma here? The name Govind has a sweet appeal – apparently, Vinda means Keeper and Go is universe symbolized by Cow. So you have Govinda meaning Keeper of the Universe .

PA: It’s basically more closer to the Bhakti tradition the whole effort is in singing and Kirtan. Govind is The Lord of the universe – Krishna. Manukh dehriya – human body

UB: It will be good if you can put an equivalent Verse from Guru Granth when verses from Gita are being quoted. It should deepen our understanding of both.

PA: I will definitely try to do that 🙏. By the way for me this group is a form of saadh sangat

UB: दूरेण ह्यवरं कर्मबुद्धियोगाद्धनञ्जय। बुद्धौशरणमन्विच्छ कृपणाःफलहेतवः।।2.49।।

2.49 Action with attachment is far inferior, O Arjuna, to action done with evenness of mind. Seek refuge in evenness of mind. Miserable (कृपणाः) are they who act with a motive for results.

बुद्धियुक्तो जहातीह उभेसुकृतदुष्कृते। तस्माद्योगाययुज्यस्व योगः कर्मसुकौशलम्।।2.50।।

2.50 A man with evenness of mind discards here and now सुकृत and दुष्कृत (good & bad acts). Therefore endeavour for Yoga. Yoga is skill in action.

कर्मजं बुद्धियुक्ता हि फलं त्यक्त्वामनीषिणः। जन्मबन्धविनिर्मुक्ताःपदं गच्छन्त्यनामयम्।।2.51।।

2.51 The wise who possess evenness of mind, giving up the fruits born of action, are freed from the bondage of birth, and go to the region beyond all ills.

UB: योगः कर्मसु कौशलम – skill in action is योग. This can be a motto struck across all billboards all over the world. At a lower level, one may be tempted to say that one who works efficiently may be termed a Yogi. But श्रीकृष्ण has put across a much higher standard – only such कर्म will be deemed as कुशल when the कर्म is done with समत्वम्. Quality of work out does not determine कुशलता; approach to कर्म determines it. श्रीकृष्ण uses strong words to condemn people who work for a motive – he calls them कार्पण्य (miserable); indeed severe. To engage oneself fully in a कर्म and if praise comes your way for the work well done, let the praise not get into your ego. If blame comes, test whether you indeed followed समत्वम् and you did do so, be indifferent to blame & take it as your प्रारब्ध (destiny) and move on. Second, what is the real meaning bondage of birth & death? It is not just about physical life only – in this unique ecosystem of life on our planet, every सुख is born and then it dies, every दुख is born and then it dies – Ex: first गुलाबजामून gives सुख while tenth gives us दुख. While all of us have an innate longing for permanency in our experience of सुख, our nature of experience on this planet incl. the construct of our mind does not allow for such a permanency – this is why Earth is referred to as मृत्युलोक and thus we are bound to the bondage of birth & death on a daily basis So how must a योगी live – he must attempt to bring-in permanency in day to day life itself – these attempts are referred to as साधना. And a साधक likes to know examples – thus, Earth may be taken as a Yogi since it keeps living itself whether we praise it or abuse it. Planets keeps moving and giving us the joy of seasons but never wait to receive our praise – anyone who displays such traits is indeed living the motto –  योगः कर्मसु कौशलम. Thus, we also read about the lives of Saints (Ramana, Shuka, Kabir, etc) and try to learn how to cultivate समत्वम् even though we are living in मृत्युलोक too.

HB: Interesting discussion. I didn’t know, (besides billion other things) that Sikhism had reference of Krishna. Just wondering, if Krishna means the ‘dark one’, were the saints referring to space in the universe

UB: HB – the Guru I follow says that Krishna names comes from the same root word कर्ष from where another word आकर्षण comes about and it thus means attraction or one who attracts. ण apparently symbolizes तत् and कृष्ण thus stands for one who attracts us to Truth. Do note that the names कृष्ण and राम existed in the Vedas before Ayodhya’s राम or Mathura’s कृष्ण came about. Kabir used to keep on emphasizing that while he is a bhakta of राम, his राम is not Ayodhya’s राम but the One who resides in the heart of all. As for कृष्ण being dark, the symbolism of dark blue cloud is used that is ready to shower rain on all who seek it (rains of course means wishes or needs of people that give them joy).

VB: To engage oneself fully in a कर्म and if praise comes your way for the work well done, let the praise not get into your ego. If blame comes, test whether you indeed followed  समत्वम् and you did do so, be indifferent to blame & take it as your प्रारब्ध (destiny) and move on. I have stood in multiple town halls and preached this to large gatherings 150+. Give ur 100%. If it works, well. If it doesn’t, I kid around it, blame your boss. He/she (PK plz note. I used she) selected you for the job.  It was his call. But ensure you give 100%. However, I struggle with the part where in spite of giving 100%, people blame you. That too I manage and ask folks to ignore. However, the blamers do not follow Gita. They penalize you, eventually your 100% devotion to karma, sometimes results in an adverse impact on your career. At such times, how do you keep yourself focused on karma path?

UB: I am no expert but let me venture an answer: Firstly, I am aware of many instances when I did not deserve a praise and got it despite not giving my best; one needs to constantly be aware of such instances too 😀. Second, being of an accepting type does not mean we do not defend ourselves. While we may accept inside, if we are sure that we have applied ourselves fully, we must attack the supervisor aggressively. We must fight the battle – so a passive reaction stating “You are the boss” approach is a NO NO. If we still do not succeed, we have to move on from the event but at least after a few sweat drops experienced by the boss. Being Karmayogi does not mean being a sugar coated goody-goody person.

VB: Boss part was the joke. I feel it requires tremendous amount of conviction, self-belief to continue on this path when the results of your action impacts you in a negative manner.

UB: Yes of course – fully agree. More power is required when the accuser is our spouse 😀

VB: I disagree. No power is enough.

UB: This may be akin to being in a boxing ring and punching back even after taking a few punches on our chin…Hahaha – with wives, it is a losing battle

VB: Boxing, spouse analogy. Aaj pita hai lagta hai tujhey.

UB: When one gets socked daily, it is no longer news. It is BAU

VB: 😀😀😀

PA: Indeed it’s a difficult path but there is something beautiful in remembering this all the time. Skill in action is Yog. Here are some lines from the prayer Sukhmani Sahib (psalm of peace) which talk about again and again that this world is transitory but still we associate more with it than actually the creator behind it

ਜੋ ਦੀਸੈ ਸੋ ਚਾਲਨਹਾਰੁ ॥ जो दीसै सो चालनहारु ॥

jo deesai so chaalanhaar. Whatever is seen, shall pass away;

ਲਪਟਿ ਰਹਿਓ ਤਹ ਅੰਧ ਅੰਧਾਰੁ ॥ लपटि रहिओ तह अंध अंधारु ॥

lapat rahi-o tah anDh anDhaar. and yet, the blindest of the blind cling to it.

ਬਿਰਖ ਕੀ ਛਾਇਆ ਸਿਉ ਰੰਗੁ ਲਾਵੈ ॥ बिरख की छाइआ सिउ रंगु लावै ॥

birakh kee chhaa-i-aa si-o rang laavai. People fall in love with the shade of the tree,

ਓਹ ਬਿਨਸੈ ਉਹੁ ਮਨਿ ਪਛੁਤਾਵੈ ॥ ओह बिनसै उहु मनि पछुतावै ॥

oh binsai uho man pachhutaavai. and when it passes away, they feel regret in their minds.

UB: It is interesting to see the analogies that are used by these sayings – again and again and again. They seem to be trying their best to make it easy for thick-headed like us to catch the idea but the extent of our blindness is indeed blinding 😀. Nice

ਅਸਥਿਰੁ ਭਗਤਿ ਸਾਧ ਕੀ ਸਰਨ ॥ असथिरु भगति साध की सरन ॥

asthir bhagat saaDh kee saran. Only devotional worship is permanent, and the Sanctuary of the Holy.

ਨਾਨਕ ਜਪਿ ਜਪਿ ਜੀਵੈ ਹਰਿ ਕੇ ਚਰਨ ॥੪॥ नानक जपि जपि जीवै हरि के चरन ॥४॥

naanak jap jap jeevai har kay charan. ||4|| Nanak lives by meditating, meditating on the Lotus Feet of the Lord. ||4||

And also a warning to people like me who think they know!!

ਜਾਨਨਹਾਰ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਪਰਬੀਨ ॥ जाननहार प्रभू परबीन ॥

jaananhaar parabhoo parbeen. The Omniscient Lord God is the Knower of all.

ਬਾਹਰਿ ਭੇਖ ਨ ਕਾਹੂ ਭੀਨ ॥ बाहरि भेख न काहू भीन ॥

baahar bhaykh na kaahoo bheen. He is not impressed by outward display.

ਅਵਰ ਉਪਦੇਸੈ ਆਪਿ ਨ ਕਰੈ ॥ अवर उपदेसै आपि न करै ॥

avar updaysai aap na karai. One who does not practice what he preaches to others,

ਆਵਤ ਜਾਵਤ ਜਨਮੈ ਮਰੈ ॥ आवत जावत जनमै मरै ॥

aavat jaavat janmai marai. shall come and go in reincarnation, through birth and death.

As you said UB the extend of our blindness is indeed blinding!!

ਨਿਮਖ ਨਿਮਖ ਜਪਿ ਨਾਨਕ ਹਰੀ ॥੮॥੫॥ निमख निमख जपि नानक हरी ॥८॥५॥

nimakh nimakh jap naanak haree. ||8||5||

Each and every moment, O Nanak, meditate on the Lord. ||8||5||

Here again Guru Nanak asks us to meditate on Hari every moment! I suppose when you are doing work with love and joy you are in a way meditating on Hari and are not attached to the results which obviously creates anxiety with anticipation and hence attachment as the action bounds is back to its fruits

UB: There is a story given by Paramahamsa that is interesting in this context. He said that there was this married woman who was exceedingly in love with her husband. She used to work in houses of others doing menial work. Her husband was away for a year and was returning back on a certain day. Like all days, she went to work today too but her mind was fully on her husband. She was thinking of how to greet him, what dress to wear, etc. While her mind was fully on her husband, she was working on this day more efficiently. All utensils were washed very well and floor cleaned perfectly. Her worry was that if she works badly, her employer will make her work again and she will get delayed to meet her husband. So she was most efficiently while thinking of her husband all the time. This is how one can think of the Lord and still work efficiently. Now I await the feminist perspective from PK later in the day to this example 😀

VN: UB you have smartly compared pati with parmeshwar😂

UB: 😀😀

VB: duly noted the “she”… Good job 😂👍👍👍

PK: I am a sucker for romance so love the wife story 😃… Now if it had been the conclusion that her remembering him ( assuming he was a cool guy worthy of it) was not worth her time and should have been spent more usefully then I would object … Romantic love is always ridiculed to some extent but I disagree only on that 😃😃😃..the paramahansa was a wise man indeed ( not that he needs my support) but that he sounds very interesting with his feminist examples 😃… VB: agree with you 100% about requiring tremendous conviction to continue in face of negative impact

UB: कर्मजं बुद्धियुक्ता हि फलं त्यक्त्वामनीषिणः। जन्मबन्धविनिर्मुक्ताःपदं गच्छन्त्यनामयम्।।2.51।।

2.51 The wise (described by a beautiful word बुद्धियुक्ता meaning one who has reined-in his बुद्धि) who possesses evenness of mind, giving up the फल born of कर्म, are freed from the bondage of जन्म and go to the region beyond all ills (अनामयम्).

यदा ते मोहकलिलंबुद्धिर्व्यतितरिष्यति। तदा गन्तासिनिर्वेदं श्रोतव्यस्य श्रुतस्यच।।2.52।।

2.52. When your बुद्धि goes beyond the impregnable thicket of delusion, at that time you will attain an attitude of futility regarding what has to be heard and what has been heard.

श्रुतिविप्रतिपन्ना ते यदा स्थास्यतिनिश्चला। समाधावचला बुद्धिस्तदायोगमवाप्स्यसि।।2.53।।

2.53. When your बुद्धि, that had been [earlier] confused by your hearing [of scriptural declaration of फल] shall stand stable in concentration, at that time you shall attain the योग.

UB: श्रीमद्भागवत should have ended here. Because अर्जुन objections were based on injunctions in शास्त्र (do not injure others, respect elders, etc), श्रीकृष्ण elucidated the highest ज्ञान as per सांख्य and योग and told him that a बुद्धियुक्त goes beyond शास्त्र thus responding to the root cause of objections raised. The word ‘blasphemy’ did not big gain value in traditional India because the urging to people was to eventually reach a stage beyond injunctions in शास्त्र. But why follow शास्त्र at all? The response is that till we are in द्वैतभाव, we need to follow शास्त्र but once you cross over, junk the शास्त्र – this is akin to using a thorn (शास्त्र) to remove another thorn (mind in द्वैतभाव) struck in the foot. श्रीमद्भागवत continues further on because of many questions raised by अर्जुन since all this ज्ञान was too high-level to digest so easily.

UB: अर्जुन उवाच

स्थितप्रज्ञस्य का भाषासमाधिस्थस्य केशव। स्थितधीःकिं प्रभाषेत किमासीत व्रजेतकिम्।।2.54।

2.54 अर्जुन said O केशव!  what (का) is the description (भाषा) of a person of firm wisdom (स्थितप्रज्ञस्य), one whose mind abides in the self (समाधिस्थस्य)?

How (किम्) does such a person, whose mind is not shaken by anything (स्थितधी), speak (प्रभाषेत), sit (आसीत), and walk (व्रजेत)?

UB: Target gold standard for a person pursuing अध्यात्म is to become a स्थितप्रज्ञ. In this state, one’s प्रज्ञ (wisdom) has become स्थित (stable or rooted). And where is this प्रज्ञ rooted to? It is rooted in one’s own REAL identity which तत् or परमात्मा. अर्जुन thus becomes curious to know how a स्थितप्रज्ञ should be described.  Then he asks – How does a स्थितप्रज्ञ speak means what is the manner in which such a person expresses himself. Next Q is – How does a स्थितप्रज्ञ sit? When a person sits, it means he stops moving and one stops moving when one’s mind is not distracted. अर्जुन thus wanted to know how a स्थितप्रज्ञ is able to avoid getting distracted by the demands of the senses. How does a स्थितप्रज्ञ move means how such a person engages with the world around him. These are key verses since they describe the ‘Spiritual Superman’ aspiration state. Rest of द्वितीय अध्याय is श्रीकृष्ण answer to these three questions.

PA: Wonderful 👍 eager to see the next 3 verses. 😄😄. The second chapter of the BG is really worth a ton of Gold or rather Tons of gold

UB: Sure 👍Though unfortunately, the answer is given in the next 18 verses; not just 3 😀. There are 4 Qs here – 1) how does one describe such a person; 2) how does he speak; 3) how does he sit and 4) how does he move.

VN: And he has rightly been described as “spiritual superman”

HB: Nice explanation of Krishna, UB

HB: VB, attributing too much power to spouse. Wise choice 😂👍

HB: PA: How could these men write such lovely verses of wisdom and make them rhyme too. I loved the verses where tree and shadow is used to draw an analogy. The transitory nature also resonates in shloka of Ramadas swami

PA: Actually HB in the Guru Granth Sahib everything is under the framework of Indian classical ragas. That’s why it rhymes so well. The whole practice is based on singing listening meditating on the listening and adapting or following. Wish by writing these lines one could already achieve that state – alas it’s not so 😞. I think after the end of chapter 2 we need a revision. !!

HB: We so enjoy the good things in lives that we are almost obsessed/ addicted to them and it is never enough, and to fulfil this unsatiated desire have to take birth again and again

PA: Or once again a summary of the main points although today was sort of a summary again

HB: This is the best I could, VB help!!!! I have a gurudwara just near the gate of my society. I sometimes go when they sing, it has a calming effect, although I understand only 15 to 20 percent only, maybe less. A question keeps coming to my mind, if life is so beautiful and humans embrace it inspite of the pain, why taking birth is again and again such a taboo

PA: Powerful events like Old age, disease, loss of loved ones, loss of relationships ,natural disasters and right now relevant also rising insecurity of human life takes away the beauty from life – these are external events but unruffles the mind of most and hence rebirth again and again going through the same story again makes one wonder – how much? The gold standard what the Bhagwat says that we have to arrive is to stay rooted in the tat or the real of the in changing which is the source of joy and bliss that is always new and everlasting. Life is ever beautiful and ever bliss when you see the Creator behind and in everything thing you do and every moment you live.. You are in this everlasting state of happiness they call it jivan mukat. It’s all in His Grace to achieve this state our duty is only to keep up our practice as now it’s clear fruit is not in our hand. As. UB said the extend of our blindness Is indeed blinding 🙏🙏🙏

UB: Description of a स्थितप्रज्ञः

श्री भगवानुवाच

प्रजहाति यदा कामान् सर्वान् पार्थमनोगतान्। आत्मन्येवात्मना तुष्टःस्थितप्रज्ञस्तदोच्यते।।2.55।।

2.55 भगवान said – When (यदा) a person gives up (प्रजहाति) all (सार्वान्) the desires (कामान्) as they appear in the mind (मनोगतान्), O! पार्थ, happy (तुष्टः) in oneself (आत्मनि), with oneself (आत्मना) alone (एव), then (तदा) that person is said to be (उच्यते) a स्थितप्रज्ञः

UB: Whatever our conception of an enlightened man is, the Gita definition may appear unusual. श्रीकृष्ण does not use the word ‘religious, god-loving, charitable, humble, loving all’, etc. Instead, his description suggests a state of complete contentment. To use a crude analogy, for a person working in an ice cream factory, he does not have to salivate for the cream since he is surrounded by it. But this does not also mean that he will not eat it since he will consume it when he feels the need for it. While this man’s state of contentment is with respect to the ice-cream only, a स्थितप्रज्ञ rests fully in and within परमात्मा and thus always remains in a state of fullness. For a person swimming in an ocean of honey, even if someone drops a Gulab Jamun within this ocean, he will not feel that he has given up the Gulab Jamun (though the world will wonder why he is not eating the sweet) because he is already immersed in an ocean that is far sweeter. Nor does he lose sleep if someone takes out a bucket of honey from the ocean since the ocean will still remain full of honey and he thus has nothing to lose. So he is fully contended since, in his mind, he possesses everything. राम means one who is blissful within himself and understood as a good example of स्थितप्रज्ञ – study is रामायण is encouraged to enable people to learn how a स्थितप्रज्ञ behaves in real life.

PA: So The Lord says to be in a contented state and give up the impulses / desires that arise in the mind ..

Needs vs desire – Also as you said he has to first taste the higher nectar once only then can he give up the desires of the mind

PA: Again the classic question – How to distinguish between the mind impulses and the loving guidance of The Lord inside of you? Mind impulses are based on Fear mechanism preservation protection bound by the 3 states. Guidance of The Lord is based on pure love and from your heart

UB: Classic Q indeed – if you do not even have a taste of Higher, you cannot leave the lower. If you are in the lower today, how can one develop a taste for higher? I think this is where religion comes in. Religions prescribe Seva, Pujas, Charity, Kirtans, Temple visits, Chanting, etc. If done properly with the right kind of people, slowly, one moves towards getting a taste of nectar and we will be in a position to identity the nature of our impulses more and more clearly. This cannot be described academically but experienced personally which can only come through religious Sadhana. That is my limited take on this.

UB: How does a स्थितप्रज्ञः speak?

(mode of expression)

दुःखेष्वनुद्विग्नमनाः सुखेषुविगतस्पृहः। वीतरागभयक्रोधःस्थितधीर्मुनिरुच्यते।।2.56।।

2.56. The one who is not affected (अनुद्विग्नमनाः) by adversities (दुःखेषु), who is without yearning (विगतस्पृहः) for pleasures (सुखेषु) and is free from longing, fear, and anger (वीतरागभयक्रोधः) is said to be (उच्यते) a wise person (मुनिः) whose knowledge remains (स्थितधीः).

यः सर्वत्रानभिस्नेहस्तत्तत्प्राप्य शुभाशुभम् । नाभिनन्दति न द्वेष्टि तस्य प्रज्ञा प्रतिष्ठिता ॥२.५७॥

The one (यः) who is without attachment (अनभिस्नेहः) in all situations (सर्वत्र), gaining (प्राप्य) whatever (तत्) pleasure and pain (शुभाशुभम्), neither (न) rejoices (अभिनन्दति) nor (न) hates (द्वेष्टि), His (तस्य) knowledge (प्रज्ञा) is well established (प्रतिष्ठिता).

UB: All of life is expressed in the form of chasing for pleasures and avoiding troubles. When these are encountered, one experiences joy or sorrow.  Longing is the cause for both fear and anger – fear comes from losing what one owns and anger comes from inability to get something one truly longs for. Logical deduction thus suggests that in a state of no longing, there will be no fear & no anger. So is a स्तिथप्रज्ञ an indifferent & bland person? No. A स्तिथप्रज्ञ lives in an expanded mind-space and thus feels as much pain as a grown up adult experiences from beating by a one year old kid or as much joy as a Crorepati experiences from credit of Rs 10/- into this bank account. Hence, his reactions are muted to such events which however may be deemed as causing pain or pleasure to normal mortals.

PA: How do we live a life of abundance based on the teachings that guide us to have no desires? I desire that I have a life where I have the time and the freedom to do what I really like to do. How do I translate the teachings until now to a be in that state?

UB: How does he sit?

(How do he perform sense control)

यदा संहरते चायं कूर्मोऽङ्गानीव सर्वशः ।इन्द्रियाणीन्द्रियार्थेभ्यस्तस्य प्रज्ञा प्रतिष्ठिता ॥२.५८॥

And (च) when (यदा), like (इव) the turtle (कूर्मः) that withdraws (संहरते) its limbs (अङ्गानि), this person (अयम्) is able to completely (सर्वश:) withdraw the sense organs (इन्द्रियाणि) from their objects (इन्द्रियार्थेभ्यः), his (तस्य) knowledge (प्रज्ञा) is steady (प्रतिष्ठिता).

विषया विनिवर्तन्ते निराहारस्य देहिनः ।रसवर्जं रसोप्यस्य परं दृष्ट्वा निवर्तते ॥२.५९॥

For one who does not feed the senses (निराहारस्य देहिनः), the senses (विषयाः) come back (विनिवर्तन्ते) to oneself leaving the longing behind (रसवर्जम्). Having seen (दृष्ट्वा) Brahman (परम्) even (अपि) the longing (अस्य रसः) goes away (निवर्तते).

यततो ह्यपि कौन्तेय पुरुषस्य विपश्चितः ।इन्द्रियाणि प्रमाथीनि हरन्ति प्रसभं मनः ॥२.६०॥

Because (हि), the powerful (प्रमाथीनि) senses (इन्द्रियाणि) of even (अपि) the person (पुरुषस्य) who makes effort (यततः), who sees clearly (विपश्चितः), forcefully (प्रसभम्) take (हरन्ति) the mind (मनः) away, O! कौन्तेय

तानि सर्वाणि संयम्य युक्त आसीत मत्परः । वशे हि यस्येन्द्रियाणि तस्य प्रज्ञा प्रतिष्ठिता ॥२.६१॥

May one who is endowed with reason (युक्तः), keeping all the sense organs (तानि सर्वाणि) in one’s own hands (संयम्य), sit (आसीत) in contemplation of Me (मत्पर:). For the one (तस्य) who has (यस्य हि) all the sense organs (इन्द्रियाणि) under control (वशे) the knowledge (प्रज्ञा) is well-established (प्रतिष्ठिता).

UB: Turtle analogy is apt since one is being asked to draw-in the senses which are naturally outgoing. However, artificial suppression cannot help since the longing within can unleash the senses again. There is a story of a योगी who had सिद्धि to live under water; so he goes below water to practice ध्यान. However, when he opened his eyes once, he saw two fish mating which unleashed the longing within him which he had been artificially suppressing. He left his ध्यान, went out, got married & lived a family life. In रामायण, मंदोदरी curses रावण stating that it was not राम who killed him but actually his own senses which he had artificially suppressed in his long years of ध्यान – when released post ध्यान, these made him indulge in actions kidnapping Sita thus inviting death. So how does one perform sense-control? Only by holding on to something higher, one can get rid of the lower. So श्रीकृष्ण says that because a स्थितप्रज्ञ holds on to परम्, he is able to let go of the demands of the senses. (Tom will be a classic श्लोक).

Psychological stages of descent – A masterpiece

ध्यायतो विषयान्पुंसः सङ्गस्तेषूपजायते ।सङ्गात् सञ्जायते कामः कामात् क्रोधोऽभिजायते ॥२.६२॥

In the person (पुंसः) who dwells (ध्यायतः) upon objects (विषयान्), an attachment (सङ्गः) is born (उपजायते) with reference to them (तेषु). From attachment (सङ्गात्) is born (सञ्जायते) desire (कामः). From desire (कामात्), anger (क्रोध:) is born (अभिजायते).

क्रोधात् भवति सम्मोहः सम्मोहात् स्मृतिविभ्रमः । स्मृतिभंशाद् बुद्धिनाशो बुद्धिनाशात् प्रणश्यति ॥२.६३॥

From anger (क्रोधात्) comes (भवति) delusion (सम्मोह). From delusion (सम्मोहात्) comes the loss of memory (स्मृतिविभ्रमः). Because of the loss of memory (स्मृतिभ्रंशात्), the mind becomes incapacitated (बुद्धिनाशः). When the mind is incapacitated (बुद्धिनाशात्), the person is destroyed (प्रणश्यति).

1) विषय does not mean physical objects only but also people or other sensual likings.
2) क्रोध happens if desires are not met
3) सम्मोह: happen if we make false conclusions of our state leading to birth of prejudices, partiality, blame others, wanting to harm others, etc
4) स्मृतिविभ्रमः means that our स्मृति of our real nature of connection with परमात्मा gets lost as we start thinking of ourselves as individual selves cut sway from तत् thus leading to बुद्धिनाश:
5) A person is destroyed means his door to spiritual uplift is closed.

PA: On the same lines would like to post a Shabad from the 10th Guru Gobind SIngh recorded on the Raag ramkali. Also guides us to practice the spiritual path living in the life of normal household:

Shabad||

The Lord is One the Victory is of the Lord.

Ik Oankaar Sri Waheguroo ji ki Fateh||

RAMKALI OF THE TENTH KING

RaamkaliPaat(i)shaaji10||

O mind ! the asceticism be practised in this way :

Re man aiso kar(i) sanniaasaa||

Consider your house as the forest and remain unattached within yourself…..Pause.

Ban se sadan sabhai kar(i) samjhoh man himaah(i) udaasaa||aa|| Rahaao||

Consider continence as the matted hair, Yoga as the ablution and daily observances as your nails,

Jat kijataa jog ko majjan(u) nem ke nakhan ba?haao||

Consider the knowledge as the preceptor giving lessons to you and apply the Name of the Lord as ashes.1.

Gayaan guroo aatam updeshoh naam bibhoot lagaao||1||

Eat less and sleep less, cherish mercy and forgiveness;

Alap ahhaar sulap sinindraa dayaa chhimaa tan preet(i)||

Practise gentleness and contentment and remain free from three modes.2.

Sil santokh sadaa nribeehibo hvaiho tigun ateet(i)||2||

Keep your mind unattached from lust, anger, greed, insistence and infatuation,

Kaam krodh hankaar lobh hath moh na man so lyaavai||

Then you will visualize the supreme essence and realise the supreme Purusha.3.1.

Tab hiaatam tat ko dares param purakh kah paavai||3||1||

Actually could not find a link with de nagri script but I send a picture from the prayer book in Hindi that i use

Man hi mahe udasa

Remain detached living in the world. Also hint towards not giving yourself to the sense and practice kindness forgiveness less eat and less sleep and contentment. The comparison is made to the yogis who grow long hair have long nails and have matted hair

UB: Today’s verses are quoted frequently since the outcome of not controlling senses in the form of a descent is given in an orderly manner.

UB: PA – what is meant by insistence? Is it longing ?

PA: Jath – Continence – self restraint. Yoga – daily manjan (for teeth

PA: Insistence is stubbornness

PA: हठ -insistence

UB: OK – and Jath is जठ

PA: Yes

UB: Our script makes things so much easier to understand

PA: Yes absolutely. That’s why I was looking for a devnagri script for this shabad

UB: Actually, जटा means hair

PA: Yes the matted hair of yogis

UB: It may be meant that take जटा as ब्रह्मचर्य

PA: So it instead of growing matted hair one can practice self-restraint – continence. But the key point – Man hi maahi udhaasa. Inside you remain detached although living in the world.  Actually as you said right in the beginning the classic of Indian scripture to say the key point of summary in beginning itself. We have always in the shabad before the rahoo is the summary. And the rest is again to make the understanding deeper. The yogis apply bhibhoot to the body which a normal person cannot apply living in the world so apply the Name of Lord as bhibhoot

UB: Understood

UB: How does he move?

(Last Q – Why acquire प्रसन्न चेतस:)

रागद्वेषवियुक्तैस्तु विषयानिन्द्रियैश्चरन्। आत्मवश्यैर्विधेयात्माप्रसादमधिगच्छति ॥२.६४॥

Whereas (तु), one whose mind is controlled (विधेयात्मा) moving (चरन्) in the world of objects (विषयान्) with the sense organs (इन्द्रियैः) under his or her control (आत्मवश्यैः), free from likes and dislikes (रागद्वेषवियुक्तैः) attains (अधिगच्छति) tranquillity (प्रसादम्).

प्रसादे सर्वदुःखानां हानिरस्योपजायते। प्रसन्नचेतसो ह्याशु बुद्धिः पर्यवतिष्ठते॥२.६५॥

When the mind is tranquil (प्रसादे), destruction (हानिः) of all pain and sorrow (सर्वदुःखानाम्) of this person (अस्य) happens (उपजायते) because (हि) the बुद्धिः of one who is tranquil-minded (प्रसन्नचेतसः) soon (आशु) becomes well-established (पर्यवतिष्ठते).

नास्ति बुद्धिरयुक्तस्य न चायुक्तस्यभावना । न चाभावयतः शान्तिरशान्तस्य कुतःसुखम् ॥२.६६॥

For the one who is not tranquil (अयुक्तस्य) there is (अस्ति) no (न) knowledge (बुद्धिः). For the one who is not tranquil (अयुक्तस्य), there is no (न च) contemplation (भावना). And (च) for the one who is not contemplative (अभावयतः), there is no (न) peace (शान्तिः). For the one who has no peace (अशान्तस्य) how can there be (कुतः) happiness (सुखम्)?

UB: Interesting order of ascent after order of descent conveyed in 2:62-2:63 – we often are told that we must meditate to get some calm. Here it is the other way round – only after acquiring प्रसन्न चेतना, our mind gets suited for भावना which in turn gives us शांति followed finally by सुखम्. So how does one acquire प्रसन्न चेतना? I guess the starting point is tremendous श्रद्धा (conviction) of presence of परम् which can come from श्रवण & मनन (listening/ reading शास्त्र/ पुराण or accounts of स्थितप्रज्ञ & always thinking about them either alone or via सत्संग). Once श्रद्धा sets in, we become indifferent to call of the senses which in turn sets the ground for being in a state of प्रसन्न चेतना followed by ध्यान followed finally by आनंद. This is thus a systematic progression.

VB: UB & PA, was reading all what you were posting. But could not find time to ponder and post. “If long jump is not your forte since your उपाधि is not tuned for certain sports, do not waste time and instead pursue actions that match your innate उपाधि orientation. The Q of what कर्म to pursue should not ideally require self-convincing; if you know yourself well, you will know your own natural urges. ” How to find one’s upadhi? Do we have the freedom to do so? Sometimes our social context defines our upadhi. For eg, our upbringing in anushaktinagar guided us to engg,medicine. Some of us including me realized our upadhi years later and realized that we missed it. In such cases, we continue on our social context decided karma path and face emotions/upsides/downsides that we cannot control. It becomes even more difficult to be sthitpragya. ” So how do we distinguish b/w NEED VS DESIRE –  Desire for self-preservation is not desire,  desire of a married person to give best to family is not desire, desire to excel in work is not desire – all these are उपाधि धर्म that must be discharged in our roles and cannot be likened as desire for fruit.  So, take care of parents with joy, entertain spouse & kids with joy, work in office with joy, and take care of your own health with passion – BUT NOT FOR SELFISH JOY BUT BECAUSE THE UNIVERSAL WITHIN YOU WOULD HAVE DONE THE SAME.” So, is it wrong if I feel sad for not bringing joy to family after I work hard on a vacation. Shud I not feel sad? I should, right? Only then it will help me introspect further to see what could have been done better. Taking it one step ahead, if I am not impacted by outcomes, how will I know what to do or what not to do. I know this flies contrary to what I believe in and try to follow. But many times I try to dissociate the impact analysis with my personal impact and feel that feeling sad or happy is also part of the process and hence I should undergo it but should not allow it to impact me too much. I am talking gibberish by now. Just dumping my thoughts.

UB: बापरे!!!!! कहाँ से चालू करूँ? 😀

VB: 😀

VB: I am trying to apply what I am reading t my daily life and hence these questions.

UB: First – उपाधि लक्षण. One way is to say that our social conditioning determined our orientation. Another view can be that because we carried a certain orientation, we ended up in a certain environment. The choice of the environment thus is a factor of our own choice or conditioning that we already carried. There is thus no new choice to be exercised that needs to be different from what your environment has already incubated you for.

VB: But we are born into an orientation and we do not influence it. That is not a choice we make

UB: Remember that something already exists. It is not out of “nothing” that “something” comes about. There is always a “something” that changes shape. Gita view thus is that one acquires a certain form or is born in a certain condition owing to his own actions and not because of an external God or someone else dictating our life. So our own actions led us to this life just like our own action to board a train at Mankhurd takes us to VT. There are no accidents …. This is the Vedic perspective. Embracing our child gives a lot of joy. If this does not mean that one embraces beyond a few seconds since this will kill the joy of embrace. Similarly, staying away from family for work does not mean we should feel sad since we have families who stay close but remain unhappy. So our job is to take care of them as much as their job is to take care of us. Just as we know we are working for family, our family must know that you are working for them. If this much is known to both, even if one is at home for a few days only, we can still experience the joy of being together and continue to feel joy of this embrace all through our work time when we are away.

UB: We have two choices about our family  – just like sand held in our hand slips away which makes us insecure and thus we hold tighter only to watch more sand slipping away, we may view our relationship from this insecure lens – we will always worry in such a case. Or we may view our relations with the same security like our money lying secure in a locker knowing very well that no matter where I go, they will always remain with us. Same goes for our family to view us on those lens

UB: If one of the sides however does not feel so, we have a case of conflict but that does not mean that the partner who genuinely cares for another drops the ball on his or her conduct. There is a Shastra injunction to husbands that no matter how badly one’s own wife behaves, the husband must take the insults of his wife as his Prarabdha and continue to make efforts to keep wife happy since it is his job to do so. 😀 I know this is idealistic crap in a sense and goes contrasty to rational norms but what one needs to look at is the intent behind this prescription viz complete acceptance of the situation and egging on with our own duty.

UB: The outcome one is a tough one for me too. It is all good to give fancy analogies quoting from books but tough to really practice it. Let us keep this Q alive – whole of 3rd Chapter is on Karma Yoga where Krishna expands on this point in greater detail – we should then be in a better position to talk about this

VB: “So our own actions led us to this life” – this seems to be going in direction of fate/destiny. So, if we r born into our context due to our actions in our earlier form, it goes on to be extended that all our past actions have a huge if not complete bearing on our current actions. So is our life already decided? I hope not. Else, we cannot get out of this cycle. I read what you said about family. However, I do not think it was a response to what I asked. Maybe I asked wrongly. What I wanted to say was that in our role of husband, father, son, wife, we will many times do acts which we hope should have a desired outcome. We WANT that outcome, for the happiness of our family. If we do not get that outcome, we r bound to feel disheartened and sad. And I think we should. Because that will make us think as to what went wrong, what could have been done better. So, we need to worry about outcome.  As u said, will wait… Shastra seem to have lot of injunctions for husbands. None for wife? The feminist in priya should object vehemently 😀

VB: Here is a nice real story Last year I had to go to Munich for a meeting. We landed, went to the hotel and he told us our check-in was from noon.  It was 7 in the morning and we had a meeting at 10. We asked for extra room. None was available. My Indian colleague was from iskon. He took me to an iskon temple. This was in reality an independent house in a residential complex. We knocked and a German lady, in mid 60s, all white hair, light blue saree, opened the door. My colleague told her about our predicament and said we needed to have a bath etc. She invited us in. It was like stepping in a temple in India. All walls had pictures of Krishna, sholks. There was a hall and a beautiful statue and one lone German in dhoti kurta singing hyms on a harmonium. I went for a bath and saw a teenager again in dhoti kurta, all bald walking to and fro and around a tulsi plant and counting beads and muttering sholks. After our baths, they invites us for Prasad. We sat on floor, cross legged on mats and had khichadi. My dad had given me til gul and I gave it to them. My colleague explained the significance. What struck me was the conviction of those 3 folks. In the middle of a predominantly Christian surroundings, there is a lone German singing hymns, a teenager going through the motions. Hats off. I really aspire to such levels of trust faith sharanogati. So at 8am, I was in a iskon temple with Germans sitting cross legged on Dari eating khichadi and all of them discussing swami or other. I was a happy mute spectator. Every month, one Sunday, I have to take my son to his IIT training exam for 3 hours. He goes in and I sit in car, read up, have tapri chai, cream rolls, wada pav. 3 hour of me time. 😀😀😀

UB: Wonderful story indeed. Predestination is not as bad as it sounds since it is our own decision. We decided to take a train to VT and hence are in VT. But we can stop mid-way at Wadala and take a reverse train to Panvel. It is all OUR own doing

PA: Wonderful story of Isckon in Germany I second that also as I had been just last week in Belgium to the Isckon temple there and the Bhakti Bhav of the people there is just amazing!!! One is born in a preconditioned environment meets people in this life time based Karma however we can reach the Mokhsha in this lifetime based on His Grace. And I think there is no destiny there and fixed that one cannot reach in this life time – it’s not decided before rather one can be the recipient of the Grace any time I suppose. There are certain hard Karmas that on has to payoff as one goes along however if we try to do action as the BG chapter 2 with non attachment we are at least not accumulating new Karmas. I also read that your Karmas can be dissolved based on the Lords Grace

HB: I liked the explanation for 2.56 to 2.57. Stitapradya as abundant thinking is a new perspective to me. Nice shloka Vinie about mind and breath. The biofeedback mechanism extends it beyond mind and breath. It looks at other senses being controlled by mind and vice versa. I liked the definitions of different categories of people. Wonder if there is any hope to migrate or transition from one class to another for ordinary people

HB: Nice shloka, LP. Ramadas Swami has also written similarly on lust and anger. UB: I like the Shastra injunction that a husband must try to keep his wife happy no matter what

UB: इन्द्रियाणां हि चरतांयन्मनोऽनुविधीयते । तदस्य  हरति प्रज्ञां वायुर्नावमिवाम्भसि॥२.६७॥

The mind (मनः) that (यत्) follows (अनुविधीयते) the moving (चरताम्) senses (इन्द्रियाणाम्) indeed (हि) robs (तत् हरति) the person of his knowledge (अस्य प्रज्ञाम्), just as (इव) the wind (वायु:) carries away (हरति) a small boat (नावम्) on the waters (अम्भसि).

तस्माद्यस्य महाबाहो निगृहीतानिसर्वशः । इन्द्रियाणीन्द्रियार्थेभ्यस्तस्य प्रज्ञाप्रतिष्ठिता ॥२.६८॥

Therefore (तस्मात्), O! महाबहो, प्रज्ञा of one (तस्य) whose (यस्य) senses (इन्द्रियाणि) are completely (सर्वशः) withdrawn (निगृहीतानि) from their objects (इन्द्रियार्थेभ्यः) is steady (प्रतिष्ठिता).

या निशा सर्वभूतानां तस्यां जागर्तिसंयमी। यस्यां जाग्रति भूतानि सा निशापश्यतो मुनेः ॥२.६९॥

In that (तस्याम्) which (या) is night (निशा) for all beings (सर्वभूतानाम्), the one who is wise, who has mastery over oneself (संयमी), is awake (जागर्ति). That (सा), in which (यस्याम्) beings (भूतानि) are awake (जाग्रति), is night (निशा) for the wise (मुनेः) one who sees (पश्यतः).

UB: Boat example is simple but compelling – a weak mind will get swayed by the call of the senses. 2:69 uses a beautiful word संयमी when referring to a स्थितप्रज्ञ – a संयमी (one who has इंद्रियाँ in his control) is awake when others are asleep meaning that on matters of आत्मज्ञान, he is active while on aspects which relate to appeal of the senses, such matters are regarded as dark by him.

PA: Wonderful UB! Giving into to senses does happen from time to time for example anger ego greed and so on. Although one realizes later on the futility of the trip yet it does happen from time to time. No wonder they are called the 5 thieves all over in the scriptures

HB: All saints have cautioned against succumbing to desires. But I loved the boat analogy.

UB: Just to clarify -2:67 talks about the “मन: अनुविधीयते” – while I translated this as “mind that follows”, the prefix अनु suggests “continuous” and hence it is “mind that continuously follows” the senses.

UB: आपूर्यमाणमचलप्रतिष्ठं समुद्रमापःप्रविशन्ति यद्वत् ।तद्वत्कामा यं प्रविशन्ति सर्वे  सशान्तिमाप्नोति न कामकामी ॥२.७०॥

Just as (यद्वत्) water (आपः) flows (प्रविशन्ति) into the समुद्रम् that is brimful (आपूर्यमाणम्) and still (अचलप्रतिष्ठम्), So too (तद्वत् ), the wise person (सः) into whom (यम्) all (सर्वे) objects (कामा:) enter (प्रविशन्ति), gains (आप्नोति) peace (शान्तिम्), (remains unchanged); Whereas, the desirer of objects (कामकामी) does not gain peace (न).

UB: Analogies given may make people reach wrong conclusions. The कूर्म (turtle) analogy given earlier may lead people to conclude that one must avoid desires and turn away from them. The ocean analogy is thus used to correct such an erroneous conclusion by stating that oceans remain stable and same before as well as after the rivers merge into the ocean. A संयमी also remains unmoved even though all desires come his way SINCE HE IS ALREADY FULL. An interesting epithet कामकामी is used for a desirer of objects.

UB: There are rich families who take dowry which makes you wonder – what was the need for them to insist on dowry? The reason is that they are in अभाव स्थिति in their minds thus making them act in this way. And then there are poor people who will not demand what is not theirs in the first place – they may be deemed as living in a state of FULLNESS in their minds. This is not a perfect example but a close one I hope 😀

विहाय कामान् यः सर्वान् पुमांश्चरतिनिस्पृहः ।निर्ममो  निरहङ्कारः सशान्तिमधिगच्छति ॥२.७१॥

Having given up (विहाय) all (सर्वान्) binding desires (कामान्), the person (पुमान्) who (यः) moves around (चरति) devoid of longing (निस्पृहः) without the sense of limited ‘I’ (निरहङ्कारः) and ‘mine’ (निर्ममः), gains (सःअधिगच्छति) peace (शान्तिम्).

एषा ब्राह्मी स्थितिः पार्थ नैनां प[http://्राप्यविमुह्यति ।स्थित्वास्यामन्तकालेऽपिब्रह्मनिर्वाणमृच्छति ॥२.७२]्राप्यविमुह्यति ।स्थित्वास्यामन्तकालेऽपिब्रह्मनिर्वाणमृच्छति ॥२.७२॥

This is (एषा) what is meant by being steady (स्थितिः) in Brahman (ब्राह्मी), O! पार्थ.  Having gained (प्राप्य) this (एनाम्), one is not (न) deluded (विमुह्यति). Remaining (स्थित्वा) therein (अस्याम्), even (अपि) at the end of one’s life (अन्तकाले), one gains (ऋच्छति) liberation (ब्रह्मनिर्वाणम्).

A स्थितप्रज्ञ is always established in ब्राह्मी स्थिति. No matter how one lived, even if one reaches this state at the end of one’s life, one will achieve ब्रह्म निर्वाणम्. So keep trying till the last day. 2:71 highlights four expressions of mind – it must be known that Gita uses every word carefully and not in a random way. काम or desire is the MOST स्थूल expression (I want to eat Vadapav). स्पृह is सूक्ष्म than काम state (I have a longing for taste). मम भाव is much more सूक्ष्म expressed as ‘My body’, ‘My kids’, ‘My career’ (My body needs to eat good food) and अहम् भाव is most सूक्ष्म (I exist). Everything comes from अहम् – whole universe is an expression of अहम्. Hence the first अक्षर of language is अ and last is ह and म् representing the state of silence which together is अहम्. ब्राह्मी स्थिति is a state where one abandons all four and is निष्काम, निस्पृह:, निर्मम & निरहंकार. This is the ultimate goal of Gita leading one to शांति.

Thus ends सांख्य योग अध्याय