PK: I have a proposal while we wait for chapter 9; I found this chapter 8 abstract and would like a revision and reiteration to fix thus in my aging brain 😃 So, i propose that in this break each member picks 2 shlokas from this chapter that connected with them the most and give a brief synopsis (including the number of shlokas ) in their own words ..: no repetition allowed which gives the folks going first an advantage 😃😃😃.., UB will provide his expert erudite opinion. All game? 😃😃😃… I think there are 15 members so it should be just right 😃😃😃😃

UB: Looking forward to the synopsis and some tough questions 👍👍. But I must confess I had to do a lot of references for Ch 8. It was tough for me too.

UB: No takers for PK’s grand offer?  😀

AK: Sorry friends. I stopped after chapter 4. Unfortunately the geeta gyan is not speaking to me much after that. That is the reason I have been a very silent member and I hope to get back on the wagon in a little time. A heartfelt thank you to you all from me.

VB: I will take the offer

PA: Hi PK I am game for the idea. Will be happy to take up atleast 4 slokas

PK: Awesome – thanks VB and PA 🙏🙏🙏. I will do 4 as well (two on behalf of AK 😃😃😃 who is always a rock for me!

PK: HB: where art thou sistah? 😃 And VN too? 🙏🙏🙏 I need key points of this chapter reiterated before we proceed ahead 😃

HB: I will do two shlokas

UB: 👍👍

VN: I will try with all my limited understanding.

PK: 👏👏🙏🙏… we are all in the same boat VN 😃😃

PA: So here is the summary of the first 4 slokas:

8.1 – 8.4

Arjuna asks the question what is Brahm, Adhyatam and Karm. Brahm or Parm is the eternal, changeless, timeless which exists everywhere cannot be seen but is basis for everything. This Universal force when expresses through human form becomes Adhyatam also called Jiva. The nature of Brahm is Sat-Chit-Ananda which means that which is allways true and enduring and pure understanding and consciousness and is pure eternal joy and bliss. Since Brahm expresses through human form (Adhyatam) or Jiva, so is the nature of humans too sat-chit-ananda. The creative forces that arise in us and the deep understanding or the pure joy (not just sensual pleasure) that we experience is certain states is the feeling of Ananda. Its a hint for us to remember tha Brahm is working though us in those states. Karm is the great Force that originates from Brahm and set up the cosmic motion. Everything is driven by the Divine Will. The One becomes Many.  The perishable world including our human bodies is Adhibhutam (all of living forms). The Adhidevam brings in once again the concept of Devas (natural forces) that are responsible or benefactors of difference human functions and these forces (devas) operate under the direction of supreme Dev or Adhidev. The spirit of how action is performed lead us back to the concept of yagna in all our activities (Adhiyagna) in the form of offering to Him. In a nutshell everything, everywhere, the cause, the effect the Doer and the Benefactor is Brahm. So how does one achieve such a vision or arrive at such a state of being in Human body and how does one know the Supreme at time of death?

PA: And the next 4: 8.5 – 8.8

 It is quite clear that a person who has such a state of consciousness and 24 x 7 the attention is focussed on Brahm then for sure when the time of death comes, the person will remember Him as he/she always did that all the time hence will merge into the Absolute. Basically, the next life form is driven by what one’s state of mind is at the time of Death. If one has trained oneself to live in surrender and as sharanagati accepting that He is the Doer one is at peace and such a state of mind one would merge into Him after death; however if one lives with the false impression that I am the Doer then the planning Mind will be filled with worries and this will cause a rebirth to fulfill those desires. By the constant practice of anuchintan ( anu – continous; chintan – focussed attention of Brahm ) and not allowing mind to go here or there (chetsa anya gamina) one comes to such a state of consciousnesss. How does one keep attention focussed on Him while doing day to day activities? This can be understood by the following example: For example a dancer who dances with a pitcher of water on her head has attention on the pitcher and does not let water fall while dancing. Also while discharging duties one has no sense of ownership but acts as an agent. For example a Bank officer handles crores of rupees but knows it does not belong to Him. In a similar ways all the worldly duties are done with a spirit of acting as an agent for the Principal.

UB: Parvindar 👏👏 You have chosen the more difficult verses and have covered 8 too.  Use of example dancer and banker is indeed apt. As we proceed further, the “how” to do अनुचिंतयन् will be conveyed very effectively.

HB : 👌👌👌👏👏👏

VG: Today is Geeta Jayanti, Bhagavaan Krishna narrated Shrimad Bhagavad Gita to Arjuna in the battlefield of Kurukshetra. Day- Mokshada Ekadashi. This is via social media

UB: VG – अमृत्सर की लाज रखना – you must also pick a few verses and give a summary

VG: difficult for me. It’s like a third grader trying to interpret shakespeare

UB: We are all third graders here 😀

PA: Arrey UB 🙏🙏🙏. All credit goes to the Teacher like you my dear

PK: Wonderful synopsis PA 🙏🙏🙏🙏… the best start to the weekend … I love this reiteration so thank you again for humouring me

PA: Thanks PK 🙏🙏 must say your idea of dividing for shlokas was great as it gave the required push for putting the extra effort

PK: 8:13: Continuing the stream of thought 8:5 – 8:8 summarized by PA regarding  constant attention on Brahm .. this shlokas emphasizes on the word AUM.., which is the sound manifestation of Param or Brahman and which pervades everything in the Universe …chanting this sacred word at all times in the right way including the time of death is essential to attain the supreme goal . This word and the peace it brings upon hearing it resonates deeply  with me . I think it is also referenced in Christianity (” in the beginning by there was the Word , the word was with God and the word was GOD) .., very fascinating to me that Hinduism which is the older religion specified the word and the instructions of how to chant it from the stomach ..,this meditation connects with me … the formless aspect of Param which pervades everything and the concept of us residing in God ( or God in our conscience) seems to be the essence of Hinduism to me … everything else seems to be an outward manifestation(  for convenience , affinity or  Beauty) of this Truth

PA: Beautifully put PK. 👏🏻👏🏻🙏🏻. Everything comes down to just That – OM the anhad Naad

UB: You’ve hit the nail PK – the formless aspect is all there is and everything else is an expression of this core truth.  👏👏👏

PK: UB and PA 🙏🙏🙏

UB: PK – you will do three more?

PK: I was thinking one more at least – this chapter is hard 😃

PK: 8-14. This shloka really intrigued me .. the Lord says that those who think of me constantly( always satatam)  focused on me with undivided attention ( Ananya chetah) and remember Me daily ( smarati Nityashah), to such a yogi I am easily attainable..,  I guess the nirantar aspect resonates with me  ( achieving anything I believe requires focus on it … scattered attention is less effective) …it is  the easy to attain ( sulabhah) that is intriguing and maybe seems a little of a contradiction 😃.., I have usually seen that nothing worthwhile in life is easy and the previous chapters where the emphasis was shanai shanai ( slowly but surely ) was easier to digest …makes me wonder with some trepidation if what we are doing ( in the sense of not being sufficiently Nirantar or Ananya chetah for me ) is ever going to be enough… yet the thought of quitting seems abhorrent so onward we go I guess

UB: Onward we go indeed 👍😀. How it will be made सुलभ will be conveyed further on.  So not to worry. VB/ VN – your summaries? I have broadly finished the Ch 9 write up.  Once a few more summaries/ reflections come, we are all good to go.

VB: I can give me only on wednesday

UB: Sure VB – we will wait.

PK: Agree – let’s wait – maybe others will roll in 🙏🙏… I have much to revise 😃😃

HB: VB, which shlokas are you taking?

VN: Superb. …beautiful LP👌🏻👌🏻👌🏻👌🏻👌🏻👌🏻

UB: HB – are you taking up a few shlokas for a summary?

VN: UB & PK ….I tried and I realized you people are way ahead of me and how miserable I am at summarising anything. 😔

HB: Yes, tell which ones? Don’t worry. Leave it to him

VN: Thanks HB…😊. But I will definitely try. …👍🏻

HB: ⚡. May the light be with you.

VN: 🙌🙌

UB: क्या Madam!!!! Choice is yours 😀

HB: Shall I do 15, 16, 17 and 18? Or is VB taking them?

UB: Yes go ahead – VB will pick up something else.  Maybe he will give विशेष टिप्पणि of the whole chapter. 😀

HB: Ok😀

PK: Go for it HB and VN 🙏🙏.., this had been a very unusual yet fun experience for me … never thought that an agnostic like me could have so much fun learning this stuff .,, reading the GITA with a group like this is definitely way different .., I am not usually very good at following religious instructions 😃😃😃but this really seems more like a shift in thinking … philosophy way more than the typical religion ( do this , don’t do that and definitely don’t ask too many questions you silly woman 😂😂😂)

HB: 😀😀

HB: Some of you are more sincere and consistent in regular reading and participation than me⚡⚡

VB: I will pick up what is left. Client left today. Will try to work tomorrow

VN: Your words are truly very inspiring LP…I am good at understanding things but when it comes to making others understand what I have understood I just can’t find words. 🙈

PA: Dear VN that’s what you think others are good at 😊. Perhaps we have missed the whole essence of the Bhagavad along the way and are just strengthening our egos by thinking we seem to have understood a sloka or two whereas you atleast sincerely admit that you have difficulty summarizing!

Give it your sincere try and we all are learners here and thankfully everybody had the loving acceptance for everyone here so feel free 😊😊

HB : So true

UB: Indeed 👍👍👏

PK: You are too kind VN 🙏🙏🙏… As PA wisely says we are all in the same boat …

VN: Thanks for the kind words PA, UB , LP, HB feel very happy to be part of this group. I will try and summarise whatever I have understood🙏🏻

AK: 8:8 to 8:12: The slokas focus on what and how a person can be one with God. Initially by constant yoga of staying steady and resolute and forever contemplating on God.

This is a very tough call for all of us on this journey.  And God realizes this and therefore in the previous chapters coaches the student on what is action, how to best perform it (karma yoga), how to understand it (jyana yoga) and how to continue with it in a steadfast way (bhakti yoga). Its the culmination of the 3 which is needed by us to be at a point where we have the strength in our last breath to be immersed in God. The next verse moves on to who is Param and idenitifies them as a ‘kavi’, an ancient one who was before the start of everything we know, the ruler of the macro and the micro , the ancestor and protector of all people. The verse the continues on the vein of how we need to have this steadfast , focussed , immersed love to God which will help us continue that at the moment of our death thereby joining with Her.

UB: Joining with Her 👍

PK: Ambi 👏👏👏. Now we are all caught up reviewing until 8:14

PA: That’s a wonderful summary AK 🙏👍👏🏻

HB: 8.13. Our body is like a tuning fork which can only resonate at his frequency. All other actions are mere vibrations that do not actualize our existence. Each body is a musical instrument, however the choice is altogether ours, whether we simply make sound or create music. The seven chakra probably denotes frequency continuum. Over obsession with any one is at the expense of missing the spectrum. Raising the Prana is symbolic of overcoming obsessive indulgence (the vices and desires) associated with each organs the chakra represents. 8.14 Thus, if 8.13 is true, then the bhakt is already at higher level of awareness and inclination to pursue activities in service of God. They need not be mere japa or tapa but could be sustained actions that are self-less. And so just as a musical instrument may perish but the music created becomes immortal, so does actions of bhakt leaves behind traces that are sukshma and immortal like god. 8.15 and 8.16 These shlokas indicate the birth rebirth cycle, sorrow associated with rebirth and ultimate joy after attaining god. The shlokas suggests a continuum from Patal lok to brahm lok, a possible path for attaining him. However, what becomes apparent is the regressive tendencies in humans. Only a few Bhakt slowly and steadily navigate the continuum ( Shuka marg). However, most of us are trapped by our desires and human weaknesses. Thus, their journey towards HIM will not be straight. They may attempt to move forward and then regress towards lower order needs. The innate tendencies will keep pulling them back for seeking momentary pleasure and hence a missed opportunity. They will eventually learn from mistake, try again and get again gravitated towards momentary pleasure. This will continue although a few may finally be released from this trap. Their journey may appear to be ‘krama’ mukti a convoluted path. I will summarize 8.17 and 8.18 tomorrow

PK: HB 👏👏👏👏

UB: Enjoyed the summary – different perspective beautifully explained. Looking forward to the other two verses too 👍👏

HB: 8.17: The details in this shloka are way beyond coincidence. It is amazing. I was looking at the life of our sun and earth and it appears that we are approximately 4.5 billion years old and the sun and the earth will perish in another 4.5 to 5 billion years. This time span is around 2 Kalpa or a day and a night in the life of brahma. Life on earth started around 3.8 billion years ago, just as the shloka suggests ” with the coming of a day all individual/things will manifest from the Unmanifest”. Thus, a full day of a brahma is equivalent to s birth, growth, maturity and death of a star and its associated planets. So for every day in life of brahma, a star is born and it dies

HB: This is the summary of i8.17, 8.18 and 8.19.

AK: This was a very tough piece to summarize. Thanks for doing it.

HB: Thanks, but not sure if it is correct. The chapter also suggests death of brahma

UB: Yes HB. This piece makes us wonder about the accuracy/ validity of these assertions.  I guess the message I will take away is that human life span is very small, Universe life span is RELATIVELY longer but even universe has a life span.  It is this idea that is appealing since we now know through modern science that our Sun and stars also have a life span. I will ignore the actual number of years since this will keep changing as science evolves.

HB: Yes

HB: I would like to summarize 8.20, 21 and 22 if it is ok with others.

PK: Of course HB! I love ur summaries .. reading all in Friday evening – thanks much 🙏🙏

PA: HB what a great summary that you are doing 👌👍👏👏. Wonderful and thanks a lot!

🙏🙏

UB: Sure – go ahead. Very good. Of course, VB will feel very happy about this since he can then avoid giving the summary altogether 😀😀. One more idea I will take away from these verses is the relative idea of time.  Just like the time span experienced in our dreams differs from the number of seconds we actually experience the dream, depending on the body we take – मनुष्य,  देव, पितृ, etc,  the idea of time varies.  This well understood ancient Indian idea is also now finding expression in recent movies like Inception.

PA: Yeah that’s a powerful relative concept of time. Although it seems pretty challenging to think that even Brahma having a life span of billions of years is under the influence of time and change and eventually the whole game goes all over again what are we as humans supposed to be aiming for with a mere mortal life of a few years ? Sound really tough and depressing.  What we have learnt that Everything is under the influence of time except God who is beyond time and is changeless. We experience time only because of Constant change around us. That’s because we are trained still to see the multiplicity and the duality in life and consider that to be the truth.  When we start constantly believing, living and seeing constantly the unchanging behind the changeless who is cause of everything and not separate from his creation; is hidden inside the creation; we are just His extension; seeing oneness in the multiplicity; we would arrive. How? Start for example dreams they were not there before and are not after only in between for a certain time; our human physical existence is limited; so it’s not real or truth; our strong negative emotions for example anger, fear, jealousy comes and goes and does not stay for ever; hence not real; wait for sometime and all negative urges  subside back as the waves on a ocean as they are not real; have a finite timespan. The example of infinite .. this constant play around us bound by time and space and finite. Slowly by examining our lives we realize this truth that. Everything happens under His Will the Divine Order; nothing is outside that. He is the cause of causes and the benefactor for all and the only thing left for us is to be in a state of constant thankfulness gratitude and praise for this beautiful creation where He is hidden and is part of us.

UB: 👍👍 To spot the unchanging amidst the change is the key puzzle to solve.

HB : 8.20. Krishna means “black, dark” in Sanskrit. 8.3 days “I Am One, let me become many”. In the center of s black hole is gravitational singularity, one dimensional point which contains huge mass in an infinitely small space, where density and gravity become infinite space- time curve infinitely, and where the laws of physics cease to operate. 8.20 “but different from that unmanifest is another unmanifest”, black holes cannot be seen however it impact on nearby matter can be seen. 8.21 this unmanifest is imperishable , that they say is the supreme abode, reaching which they do not return”. S black hole is s region region of space time exhibiting such strong gravitational effects that nothing / not even particles and electromagnetic radiation such as light can escape from inside it. 8.22 – Thus, to conclude, we meet the Vishnu when our star will grow old and expand. It’s core will run out of hydrogen and then helium, the core contacts and the outer layers expand, cool and becomes less bright. Thus supernova will eventually collapse and explode. Our progeny. Who may be more evolved and conscious may be blessed by being part of the Maha Vishnu

PA: Waoo HB profound effort from your Side 👏🏻👏🏻. You have combined scientific theories of black hole with the slokas; I have to watch the video To really understand the idea 💡great effort yaar !

HB : The video explain relative aspect of time too as explained in 8.17. 🙏🏼 But this could be all wrong too

UB: HB – bringing black hole into this is interesting. I guess you are trying to make the point about the idea of destruction and merger into nothingness both in Physics and Vedanta.  This does appear as an interesting parallel. I have read an article recently that Hawking Black Hole theory is being relooked at owing to some gaps identified – not sure if you have seen it too.  There are two extra ideas of Gita that need to be factored here. First, we need not wait till end of ब्रह्मा day to merge into विष्णु since using शुक मार्ग, this merger can happen right here right now.  Second, Gita always does a parallel of truth at a macro-Universal level that corresponds with truth as per micro-individual level.  Thus, there is an अव्यक्त state at the end of ब्रह्मा day at the macro level and the same अव्यक्त operates within us too.  Have such type of ideas been hypothesized in Science thus far?  I will be keen to read such type of literature if available.

HB: These concepts in physics are being explored and our knowledge is very limited

UB: Understand 👍

VN: OK let me start from where HB left. ….. When one merges into Narayan we should know it is a permanent reunion and happens only on a specific time. Also depending on their bhakti for the param there are three types of upasak and depending on their time of death they take the specific path to reach the param. But frankly speaking this is just the meaning I understood from what is written. ..It is really difficult for me to understand just by reading as to what type of upasak I am….infact I don’t even know if I am a upasak yet ….to make others understand what I myself have not yet experienced is really very difficult for me and hence the hesitation to attempt what you all have done so beautifully. But I am glad that I am already on the right path with right people to guide.  May be with time and more understanding I can do a better job than this 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻

HB: 👏👏👏Shall I add, with your permission?

VN: Of course please. ..🙏🏻🙏🏻. You don’t need any permission.

HB: 8.23 The word ‘yogi’ is naturally understood as a yog purush or a true devotee. If we try to literally interpret this shloka from the perspective of human being, then it becomes abstract and confusing. Chapter 8 is about knowledge of Brahman – The Abdolute Truth. So, ‘Yogi’ here is a star. Yogi is used for celestial bodies in astrology – Yogi and Avayogi. There are different types of star (Supergiants, Main sequence and Small) classified on the basis of their size, luminosity etc. 90% of stars are main sequence star including our SUN. 8.24: When a supergiant star dies, it expands into a huge supernova. The expansion creates a vacuum. The star implodes and disappears into a black hole and nothingness. This death has smoke, dust and fiery flash (agnir) as the shloka suggests. This journey to Vaikunth never to return. Sometime, the black hole sucks in a nearby star too. 8.25: Most main sequence stars expand into red giant when they are dying and then contract into white dwarfs which are 1/6 the original mass. Our sun may expand maybe upto ( chandramadam) Venus. This death is smoky and dusty. 8.26: When a supergiant star die, they disappear into nothingness, never to come back, a liberation from birth rebirth cycle. When a main sequence star dies, it expands comparatively less, and this will roast life. And this will roast life on earth, although the star has less fuel to burn. When it contracts into. White dwarf, the earth gradually cools down. Life again starts but completely different species and composition. This is said as being trapped in death and re-birth cycle. 8.27 and 8.28: This is the brahma gyan as answer to Arjuna.  We can draw parallel from macro-universal level to micro-individual level.  The supreme lord is teaching us virtues of a STAR through these celestial phenomenon. The more we burn relentlessly and selflessly in service of others, more are we tuned to him. Moreover, we render this service without expecting anything from others, just like stars. Humans who transcend personal desires and engage in selfless service are performing work of lord. These noble souls will reside in heart of Vishnu and will be remembered as having achieved oneness with him after death.  Ordinary people are like main sequence star. They are forever busy in fulfilling their desires and caught in the mundane daily transactions. No time for selfless service. They are born everyday with birth of a new desire and die with each disappointment (wealth, house, child, death). Lastly, we have those people who have committed heinous crimes. While they may or may not be punished by the law of land but the real NARKA (Hell) is the guilt and regret and the Voice of your conscience.  This is the summary of the chapter 8.

PA: VN: I love your honesty in admitting your inability in not attempting to explain something that you have not directly experienced. My feeling is that you have a better chance of getting it right. In comparison to novices like me who think that we seem to have understood. Understanding in theory is useless in comparison to actual direct experience which honestly I don’t seem to have. Isliye in these matters still a novice so dear VN please use your intuition in following what somebody says or suggests. 😊

UB: Fantastic – we have really seen summary of the whole chapter. VN – one part of learning is to do these summaries.  So no experience required for this.  You have shared interesting perspectives HB.  The Star analogy is new for me really but I have heard earlier about the idea of linking every disappointment in our life with death and Naraka with guilt.  I am glad you brought this idea here in conveying the idea.  And with this wonderful end of summary, I will now begin the wonderful Chapter 9 today

VN: Wow HB!!! You did it so well. Thanks PA for your kind words. ..and yes when I can’t use my Buddhi or understanding or whenever I am unable to take decision owing to lack of my expedience I always go with my intuition. After all we all have that krishna residing within us who from time to time guides us like the way he did for Arjuna. We may be living and  experiencing Geeta without our knowledge but if we can understand the meaning of our anubhavas I think we may enjoy this life as being in the vaikuntha  or else with arrogance and no gratitude this life can become no less than naraka. I believe vaikuntha and naraka are not two different abodes but they both exist together. How we chose it to be depends on how much we have actually understood this life. UB: you are right summarising anything does not need experience ….its just my inability to define something to which I can’t relate with. It’s like a blind person who had not seen light is trying to define it. Nevertheless it’s a beautiful way of learning and I am grateful to you for giving us this opportunity. You are doing a wonderful job👌🏻🙏🏻

UB: VN – we have a विदुरनीति श्लोक which reads – 1/4th learning happens through instructors/ reading,  1/4th through engagement with friends/peers, 1/4th via teaching others and 1/4th from practical on-the-ground experience. So your summaries are also an essential mode of learning. So as we proceed, you should take up one full chapter 😀. In fact, thus far,  no one has summarized Ch 7 as well as Ch 5.

VN: Oh my God that’s a very big responsibility. …but I shall try.