PK: 👍👍👍… all thanks to you for teaching chapters 1-11 so well 🙏🙏. Seriously though, you are a wise and patient teacher .. your teacher should be very proud of you indeed 🙏🙏  I will confess I was sceptical about my ability to learn as many times the explanations are dry and abstruse .. ..you have managed to succeed in  a difficult task…  maintain and explain the original intent of a 5000 year old text while still attempting to keeping relevant it to our modern life … kudos 🙏🙏🙏 On the contrary it was a very memorable and enriching journey

PK: Conversations with Ramana Maharishi

Question: Is not nama-japa [repetition of a divine name] helpful to attain jnana?

Bhagavan: Yes.

Question: Is not nishkama karma yoga [action performed selflessly, with no interest in a reward] also helpful?

Bhagavan: That is also helpful.

Question: What is the mutual relationship between name and form? Can one who does not have faith in nama-japa perform atma-vichara?

Bhagavan: They are not different in any way. This is the relationship. Name itself is form and form itself is name. Through nama-japa, the person who owns the name is reached. If a person does not have firm faith in the name of any of the gods, but only has a longing to know himself, he can enquire into the word ‘I’. For the thinking mind that is intent upon enquiring into the Self, ‘I’ is like a name. At this stage of practice, self-enquiry is the thinking of a name or a japa.

UB: This is akin to the lines in Ch 7 – Whosoever thinks of the Devatas goes to them while whosoever thinks of Me, comes to Me. 👍🏼👍🏼 The name सनातन धर्म has come about for this reason only – these teachings are eternal and hence relevant 5000 years back, relevant today and will be relevant after another 5000 years too.

HB: 👌🏻

PA: Very nice👍👍👍 so there is a possibility for everyone on this short nugget: Selfless action or Jap and if one does not believe in association with God then contemplation on I – as all our associates with I whom we assume to be real with start dropping off and the only real I will remain – pure consciousness

UB: अर्जुन उवाच

प्रकृतिं पुरुषं चैव क्षेत्रं क्षेत्रज्ञमेव च। एतद्वेदितुमिच्छामि ज्ञानं ज्ञेयं च केशव।।13.1।।

13.1 अर्जुन said! What I wish (इच्छामि) to know (वेदितुम्), O केशव! is this (एतद्),  प्रकृति and पुरुष, the क्षेत्र and क्षेत्रज्ञ, ज्ञानं and ज्ञेयं

श्री भगवानुवाच

इदं शरीरं कौन्तेय क्षेत्रमित्यभिधीयते। एतद्यो वेत्ति तं प्राहुः क्षेत्रज्ञ इति तद्विदः।।13.2।।

13.2 The भगवान् said – This body (इदं शरीरं), O कौन्तेय! is called (इति अभिधीयते) the क्षेत्रम्; he who (य:) knows this (तद् विद:) call (प्राहु:) the one (तं) who know this (एतद् वेत्ति) as (इति) क्षेत्रज्ञ.

क्षेत्रज्ञं चापि मां विद्धि सर्वक्षेत्रेषु भारत। क्षेत्रक्षेत्रज्ञयोर्ज्ञानं यत्तज्ज्ञानं मतं मम।।13.3।।

13.3 In all the क्षेत्र, (सर्वक्षेत्रेषु अपि च) know (विद्धि) Me (मां) to be the only क्षेत्रज्ञ O भारत. The knowledge (ज्ञानं) which is (यद्) of the क्षेत्र and क्षेत्रज्ञ (क्षेत्रक्षेत्रज्ञयो:), in My view (मतं मम) to be ज्ञान.

UB: 13:1/3 (1) – Verse 13.1 is not supposedly part of the Gita; some say it is a later day interpolation. Be that as it may, it sets the context for what this chapter focusses on. The word क्षेत्र is translated as a field or a place of action and भगवान् says that our own body may be taken as a क्षेत्र. And thus one who knows or is the operating principle of the क्षेत्र is a क्षेत्रज्ञ. A farmer does खेती in his क्षेत्र. While he may possess seeds, such seeds will turn into plants only when planted in a क्षेत्र. Similarly, owing to our कर्म, we take on life since for fruition of कर्मफल, we need a क्षेत्र and hence we take on a body (human or otherwise). Simple put,  just like we see the distinction between a farmer and his field, both क्षेत्र and its owner (viz the real us) are different.

UB: 13:1/3 (2) – And then भगवान् drops a bombshell by saying that in all the क्षेत्र, He alone is the क्षेत्रज्ञ. IN ALL BEINGS.  AND EVEN NON-BEINGS. He is everywhere; He as the most fundamental particle of the Universe is everywhere. And He alone is the life principle in ALL – there is no other. And thus only that one may be said to possess ज्ञान who knows both क्षेत्र and क्षेत्रज्ञ. If one is able to distinguish between these two at all times not just as theory but as a day to day experience, that one is a ज्ञानी.  This is the highest and only ज्ञान to know which is the purpose of our lives; rest all ज्ञान is merely an enabler for survival which are pursued as per our गुण orientation. Long commentaries by many have been written on this verse alone for many centuries.

UB: 13:1/3 (3) – Matter somehow became life is our recent idea about ourselves. Chemicals are dumb matter and somehow, via an accident, life happened. And we are trying to figure this out through research. वेदान्त however conceived this otherwise. Life cannot happen accidentally just like plants do not happen automatically. They is a purpose, there is an intent, say in the mind of the farmer, and this intent materializes in the form of a fully abundant farm.  LIFE similarly did सङ्कल्प of taking on a body and hence क्षेत्र happened as an outcome. It is life which decides to be born, live and withdraw – matter merely obeys the intent expressed by Life – that is the idea here.

PK: Don’t buy this yet … you are throwing Darwin and evolution out of the window ? 😂😂😂

UB: 😀 Darwin is not being thrown out of the window. Just like a farmer may start with cash crops and then move to pulses followed by Alphonso mangoes, evolution of life is a similar idea. But the farmer and this farm are not the same – the idea today appears to say that even the farmer came out of the farm accidentally while Gita is saying that the farmer and farm are made of different components.

PK: I still don’t understand … but need to think about it … off to mundane matters like dinner 🙏🙏 I am still mulling over this.., i am not even sure where this came into the shloka and feels to me again one of those instances of forcing science into the GiTA . For now, for me , I accept  that evolution occurred , on earth ( who knows about other planets? ) humans are the top of the totem pole and based on our brain/CNS we  have a quest/ desire  for knowledge which is both scientific (astronomy , biology , quantum physics etc)  and spiritual …  still many unanswered questions remains but cannot give up a desire for rational / scientific explanations for laws of nature yet 🙏

UB: 😀 Enjoy dinner. BTW, the farmer and the farm example is part of Adi Shankara’s commentary. The point is – we say that Universe began from condensed matter before the Big Bang. Somehow, life happened post Big Bang. Vedanta says – life cannot come from matter and both these are different – that is all. This chapter is therefore a favourite of science buffs.

VB: I had asked earlier about why did God create all of us at all. What does he achieve by creating instances of himself, making them undergo multiple lives, making them albeit falteringly, the principles of karma, moksha etc. And the answer was Leela.

HB: 😊

UB: The name of this chapter is क्षेत्र – क्षेत्रज्ञ योग which can be likened as matter and consciousness

VB: I think how life began, imho, currently has more stronger foundation in life evolving from matter then Leela, which is a very hypothetical answer. I still try to understand what was there before big bang

UP: One theory i had heard universe is spherical in 4th dimension.. Time.. So events repeat🤔.. Big bang expansion contraction again big bang?

UB: 😀👍🏼 Let us see what Gita says – whole chapter is focussed on this topic only. As I said, there are multiple page commentaries on verse 3 since many centuries since this question is the most fundamental question that has puzzled mankind for centuries – and not just a recent phenomena conceived by modern Science

PK: Instead of proceeding further to the next shlokas , can I request Uday or parvinder or others to post some more commentaries by other gurus etc ? I am still lost and will try to read up. A very perplexing start indeed🙏🙏🙏🙏… what we know seems like a smidgen compared to what we don’t know . But I would prefer to dig a little deeper before proceeding if that is ok by all – if not, no worries 🙏. If you think things become clearer as we proceed

UB: Yes – things will become clearer in the sense that this idea will get elaborated further. But despite greater clarity, whether things will get acceptable is a different issue altogether 😀😀😀. Let us continue and we can pause after some more verses are conveyed.

VB: Yes – things will become clearer in the sense that this idea will get elaborated further. But despite greater clarity, whether things will get acceptable is a different issue altogether 😀😀😀. Let us continue and we can pause after some more verses are conveyed. “But despite greater clarity, whether things will get acceptable is a different issue altogether” – 😀😀

PK: Ok 🙏🙏

UB: http://www.swami-krishnananda.org/conscious/consc_2.html. Swamiji on synergy between Vedanta and creationism – it is long but a good article

VB: Reading it. Lot of questions. Will post

UB: 👍🏼😀 I will certainly not have any answers. But this long article I certainly consider a masterpiece since it inserts many ideas which need to be pondered over and over and over.

VB: It is a genuine masterpiece. I was thinking that why can’t Darwin be married to purana in the sense god enables creation of life thru matter. And marry the 2 theories. It was the IT consultant in me trying to find a win-win situation always between my clients and I. It was a childish desire. But the article very nicely and logically marries the thought. Awesome. Initial few paragraphs sounded as jumping to conclusions without adequate connection, but later on it evolved into a masterpiece. Thanks for sharing. The jumps that disturbed me were. So we have come from a distance-less point, which means to say that even now, at this moment, when we appear to be far, far away—inconceivable light years of distance from that point—we are still sitting at that point only. I could not figure out how we can reach a conclusion that we are at the same point. Fundamentally, the world changed dramatically after big bang, energy was distributed unevenly. Laws, perception of distance changed. So, I could not figure out why we are at the same point. In fact the theory is that we are constantly moving away from centre as universe is constantly expanding. This was 1st confusion. Article also states that “If we go deep into this mystery, we will realise that creation is an illusion”. I could not understand how this realization was reached. And later on the concept of Topsy turvy thinking was also something that I could not understand. But nonetheless, brilliant article. What I did not understand, I attribute to my lack of knowledge and limitation of written media. Other concepts like kumaras, rudra, prajapati, Manu etc, I view with same confusion as Adam and Eve. I believe such elements are needed to take narrative ahead and hence i accept them as necessary components of the narrative. UB, thanks. Tahey dil sey

UB: Wonderful – I guess this Swamiji has ruminated over both books on Science and Vedanta for many years. What we see is an outcome of this deliberations. Frankly, even if such books come in front of me, I may not be intellectually capable of connecting the dots like he did. I believe that once seed ideas like these seep in, we are meant to ruminate over these all our life. And this write-up seeds wonderful ideas within us. So I guess we need to keep pondering. Expansion will happen, hopefully, if we stay with these ideas.

UB: My take on topsy turvy thinking is this – for भगवान् who is subtler beyond space and many देवता शरीर are also सूक्ष्म, it is natural for them to perceive another with a सूक्ष्म दृष्टि naturally. However since our शरीर is स्थूल, it is natural for us to perceive something physical more naturally than सूक्ष्म. In that sense therefore our world view is upside down since what is REAL is सूक्ष्म while what is real for us is स्थूल.  Hence our world view is upside down. The idea of creation as an illusion was touched at the start of Ch 7 using the dream analogy. Actually, the word illusion is unsettling for all of us and I prefer use of the word relative reality. In a dream, while we are still in the dream, all our dream experiences and dream objects and people are real and alive. It is therefore indeed a reality while dreaming. Post waking up, the dream reality becomes unreal. Similarly, till we possess individual consciousness, all this is indeed real but once we wake up to Universality, whatever that means 😀😀😀, our current दृष्टि becomes an illusion or relative reality.

HB: Lot of interesting exchanges. Haven’t seen the link yet, but doesn’t 15.1 speak more of tops turvy and the illusion

UB: Yes – 15.1 also say that creation as a top down process is a descent that starts from the top as सूक्ष्म or subtle and becomes denser or gross quite well. Do read the 7 page link when you get time. It explains the idea and compatibility with Darwinian idea quite well.

PK: Very interesting article – thanks much UB ! A decent and mostly erudite and reasonable attempt at integrating science (evolution , quantum physics) with scriptures/ religion and psychology of human behaviour in a community . There are some holes but some are probably due to my lack of domain expertise in quantum physics 😃😃.., The theory of scriptures explaining descent( down)  and Darwin explaining ascent is also a little shaky . Darwin’s point was to show human evolution and he achieved his objective. He did not need to prove anything beyond that . Scriptures of any kind need to go further and IMHO, they have not achieved it yet – but that is my personal opinion . The  theory that Brahma made humans as the lowest point of creation ( below devas etc) – there is a decent amount of fudge with words ( cosmic consciousness , etc etc) of how then evolution goes to lower organisms  upto single organisms – don’t buy his explanation totally . But agree with his major premise that there is a connecting link between perception and the perceiving apparatus or all of us I.e each of us is more than our body/ physical form (the I is beyond our body), we are all connected but we have lost that sense of connection with each other and the cosmos, the entire cosmos is infiltrated with some level of this consciousness at varying levels .  I find it interesting that for the vast majority of us, each one each one perceives and views the universe/ world/ nature from our individual vantage alone. The world I perceive is from my lens/ perspective alone (I alone am the center of my universe) and when I think like that everything seems so lonely and small. However, I truly cannot really see how any other individual feels it (even further llsclosest to me emotionally) – emotions like love and empathy etc are our best attempts to see the world from another human perspective. This to me is the crux of this journey.  I was also intrigued by Tantra reference – most folks/ books seem so reluctant to discuss Tantra that as usual my contrary nature wants to know about it. Vishwaroopa description embodied that sense of universal / cosmic unity and glory . – but that sensation of getting it is so elusive.

PK: On a separate note, For the shloka 1-3 apart from this, am I correct that shloka 2 encourages us to remember that we are not the body alone / There is a difference between the “doing” in any context ( body/ field of work etc) and the ” doer”. This distinction is essential to recognize. The lord then says that he is everywhere and in everyone. My conundrum is whether the shloka is implying that the lord the “doer”? My 2 cents is that HE is the “silent witness/ Sakshi” and that is how I make sense of free will. People use the word Jiva atma (I assuming that is individual soul) and ishvara – can you explain this some more UB when you have time?

UB: Wait for a few more days – this Chapter is focussed on issues like these only

PK: 👍👍👍

UB: 13:4/5

तत्क्षेत्रं यच्च यादृक् च यद्विकारि यतश्च यत्। स च यो यत्प्रभावश्च तत्समासेन मे श्रृणु।।13.4।।

13.4 What is that (यद् तद्) क्षेत्र, what is its appearance (यादृक् च) having what modifications (यद् विकारि च)? From what does it arise (यत: च यद्)? And what (य: च) is that (source viz Me) (स:) and what glories is it having (यत्-प्रभाव: च), that, in brief (तद् समासेन), listen from Me (मे श्रृणु).

ऋषिभिर्बहुधा गीतं छन्दोभिर्विविधैः पृथक्। ब्रह्मसूत्रपदैश्चैव हेतुमद्भिर्विनिश्चितैः।।13.5।।

13.5 Seers (ऋषिभि:) have sung (गीतं) in many ways (बहुधा), in various distinctive (विविधैः पृथक्) chants (छन्दोभि:) and also in the suggestive words indicative of the ब्रह्म (ब्रह्मसूत्रपदै: च इव), full of logic (हेतुमद्भि:) and which are well ascertained (विनिश्चितैः).

UB: 13:4/5 (1) – 13:4 defines the scope of this chapter that we will be pursuing over the next few days. भगवान् says clearly that many ऋषि have talked about what क्षेत्र & क्षेत्रज्ञ stand for. ब्रह्मसूत्रपदै may be taken to mean ब्रह्मसूत्र or even उपनिषद् where logical and well ascertained statements have been made concerning ब्रह्मज्ञान. Any person wanting to be called as an intellectual has to have read or imbibed the ब्रह्मसू्त्र; if not read, he has not understood सनातन धर्म. But this is an extremely difficult text to understand.

UB: 13:4/5 (2) – And thus भगवान् is again reiterating that what he is stating is not something new or unique but merely repeating what many wise people before Him have already stated. On matters of ब्रह्मज्ञान, there is nothing unique or new to be discovered. Whichever way ज्ञान is pursued, it will reach the conclusions that have already been conveyed in the उपनिषद् – that is the idea here. And frankly, if भगवान् would have said that His wisdom is His unique ज्ञान, even He would have had no credibility – this is been the idea in India for a very long time 😊. We may show creativity in the path followed to gain ब्रह्म state but the ultimate state is as conveyed by the Vedas itself.

UB: https://swarajyamag.com/magazine/vedanta-and-modern-physics-why-the-marriage-of-spirituality-and-science-is-difficult. Another long article similar to the One sent yesterday. Tomorrow will be long. Some of the verses here will dwell on a certain part of Vedanta that is referred to jokingly as Vedic physics. These verses will be technical and will need deep thinking. So all the best to all of us 😀👍🏼

UB: महाभूतान्यहङ्कारो बुद्धिरव्यक्तमेव च। इन्द्रियाणि दशैकं च पञ्च चेन्द्रियगोचराः।।13.6।।

13.6 The great elements (महाभूतान्), the अहङ्कार:, the बुद्धि:, the व्यक्तम्, the ten senses (इन्द्रियाणि दशैकं) and the one (viz मन:), besides, the five objects of the senses (पञ्च च इन्द्रिय-गोचराः);

UB: 13:6 (1) – क्षेत्र, also known as माया, प्रकृति,  अपरा (used in Ch 7) is inert just like a bulb or a robotic toy.  क्षेत्र has individual components just like a bulb has a filament, glass shell, etc or a robot has body parts, battery holder, etc. If one understands the specific parts of bulb or robot, one can discern how a bulb or a robot behaves when activated.  Just like a bulb is activated by electricity and a robot by a battery, the क्षेत्र is activated by क्षेत्रज्ञ. क्षेत्र has 24 categories also known as सांख्य तत्व. Thus, our body as क्षेत्र also has these 24 categories and even the whole visible universe can be understood in terms of these 24 categories. 24 तत्व may be seen in a similar manner as 108 elements in our periodic table and have been used in Indian texts to make sense of this Universe as well as ourselves. Without knowing these, no one can make sense of stories/ claims within the Indian texts. These are:

UB: 13:6 (2) – 1) व्यक्तम् – (also known as मूलप्रकृति), you may call this as undifferentiated matter or condensed matter in a potential form for projecting itself.

2) अहङ्कार: – the presence of an idea of “I” meaning a self-identity. This again at the Universal level is called as ईश्वर and at an individual level as जीव.

3) बुद्धि: – at an individual level, this is intellect and called as महत् at a Universal level. Just like a CPU within a robot makes it talk, sing, dance,  etc., बुद्धि stores data from previous experiences thus giving us the ability to make decisions gained from previously stored events.

4) महाभूतान् or 5 pure undifferentiated elements viz space, air,  fire,  water and solidity/ Earth. Note that these are not the fire, water, etc that we are familiar with but their purer versions. These pure versions actually mixed together in a certain proportion by a process known as  पञ्चीकरण to turn into the gross air,  fire,  etc that we are familiar with. All 108+ elements may thus be taken as sub-parts of these पञ्चभूत only.

UB: 13:6 (3) – 5) Ten senses – 5 पञ्च ज्ञानेन्द्रिय viz eyes,  ears,  nose,  tongue and skin and 5 पञ्च कर्मेन्द्रिय viz hands, legs, mouth, genitals and excretory organs. Do note that these need to be seen not as physical organs but representing principles like legs signifying locomotion, hands signifying grasping, genitals representing reproduction, ears signifying sound, etc. These are relevant again both at a Universal level as well as at an individual.

6) मन – principle of mind. Just like filament in a bulb makes it glow, mind has the ability to receive the trigger from क्षेत्रज्ञ and get capacity to think or cognize. Just like a filament, on its own, the mind is also inert.

7) 5 objects of the senses – Each sense object has its counterpart. Thus, forms exist for eyes to see, directions exist for sound to pass through,  etc. These are शब्द, स्पर्श, रस , रूप & गंध. If these counterparts do not exist, presence of senses do not make any sense. Both sides are thus closely interlinked.

UB: Priya – your “free-will” questioned will be addressed tomorrow.

VB: Uncomfortable with mahabhutan. Elements r pure form. They are not subsets of something unless u take atomic particles as pure form. This verse is interesting as it tries to draw parallels. But I am sure gita shloks did not mean to draw parallels. It is the commentators who tried to do it. Not sure if it is necessary to draw parallels. Who are we trying to legitimize or sell? No need to do either.

UB: You are right – comparison is only trying to make the idea understandable and nothing else. Five elements are also pure form of physical matter from an अध्यात्म lens. But one may ignore the comparison since it appears to create a false equivalence. BTW, I am told that even atoms are not pure forms since they also represent movement of sub atomic particles in a certain manner. So elements are also not really pure?  Is this the right way to put this? I guess this is a case of “narrative likeness” as yesterday’s article puts it that made me get into making “avoidable” comparisons. 😀 Will avoid it. 🙏🏼

VB: My physics stopped at atoms r made of protons, neutrons and electrons. Sub atomic particles, wave form etc is all alien to me.

UB: OK 😀

PK: Me too … me too. Someday when I retire I am going to take a physics class for fun

UB: PK – I looked at two commentaries – one by Ramanuja and other by Dhyaneshwar. Much of the content has idioms and terms which require a certain grounding which we do not have. So sending this may not help. I will have to therefore resort to commentaries written in recent times by people who in turn have based their writings on ancient commentaries.

PK: I hear ya… I read a few commentaries and gave up .. the language and phrases require a level of background erudition I do not possess – so let’s go with what you have. I am just keeping notes of where I think I have holes in my understanding and hopefully over time it will become clear – if not that’s fine – it is what it is 🙏🙏🙏🙏 I agree with VB … too much extrapolation … I am just ignoring these beyond the fact that senses help us perceive the outer world but are fairly useless in our journey to go within 😃😃.., the only way out  is IN as sadhguru says

UB: इच्छा द्वेषः सुखं दुःखं सङ्घातश्चेतनाधृतिः। एतत्क्षेत्रं समासेन सविकारमुदाहृतम्।।13.7।।

13.7 Desire (इच्छा), aversion (द्वेषः), pleasure (सुखं), pain (दुःखं), the aggregate (the body) (सङ्घात:), cognition (चेतना), resolve (धृतिः), this is in brief (समासेन) called (उदाहृतम्) the क्षेत्र (एतद् क्षेत्रं) along with its modifications (सविकारम्).

UB: 13:7 (1) – Now that the components of क्षेत्र have been described,  what are the विकार: or modifications of these 24 तत्व of क्षेत्र? In our case, if the presence of क्षेत्रज्ञ is not discerned by the क्षेत्र, then these 24 तत्व makes our क्षेत्र impute a distinct individuality to itself. By default then, the first two modifications of इच्छा & द्वेषः arise within us. इच्छा & द्वेषः operate at a subtle level as a fundamental driver of all our actions. If we get outcomes as per our इच्छा, सुखं happens and if outcomes do not go our way, दुःखं happens. Reverse is the case with द्वेषः

UB: 13:7 (2) – Interestingly, our body as क्षेत्र may be taken as an artificial compound where disparate aspects come together just like weeds, fences,  scarecrow, etc come together in a field for growth of crops to happen. Fire present within us is an enemy of water since rush of water extinguishes fire. Similarly, rush of air extinguishes fire.  All these are actually विरोधी of one another but still they come together and collectively make an experience possible.  So who or what brings these seeming enemies to work together within a single क्षेत्र in an aggregated manner? It is धृति or resolve.

UB: 13:7 (3) – So what is धृति? धृति may be taken as the continuing drive within the जीव to add value to its own life based on इच्छा & द्वेष present within its individual persona. The continuing resolve to meet our needs, fulfill our wants, keep driving for making life better comes from धृति. My personal sense is that what we call as free will operates at the level of धृति.  While there is nothing wrong with this continuing drive to keep looking for sources to fulfill our needs, the starting point being faulty viz that we have given a false sense of individuality to ourselves that is considered distinct from the Universe, धृति drives actions that are self-serving thus increasing its difficulty in perceiving the truth of क्षेत्रज्ञ.

UB: 13:7(4) – Then we have interesting word used here viz cognition or चेतना. Using बुद्धि, we are able to decide and mind helps us cognize environment around us. Is this consciousness? The ability of मन & बुद्धि to cognize is not their own. Just like Sun falls on a mirror which in turn can be directed towards a dark place to light it up, मन & बुद्धि derive their ability to cognize from a deeper source. Moon shines but the shine of the moon is not its own but that of light borrowed from the Sun. On its own, our मन is not sentient just like without electricity, the filament in a bulb cannot glow. But because the mind is coloured by the myriad of इच्छा present in the जीव, the borrowed light from क्षेत्रज्ञ gets dented and what the mind actually sees are dented perceptions thus seeing the world from its own prejudices. Therefore, though we have मन & बुद्धि, they become faulty instruments to perceive the Universe as-it-is. Therefore, freedom eludes us. But if we are able to cleanse ourselves from the subtle presence of इच्छा & द्वेष, our instruments become pure and our vision becomes capable of cognizing Truth.

UB: 13:7 (5) – ज्ञानेश्वर uses the following to describe चेतना. Essentially, क्षेत्रज्ञ pervades the body standing aloof from it as a साक्षी. A portion of it which verily pervades alike both inanimate and animate creation is called चेतना. A king may not be acquainted with his army; yet his word of command brings about the destruction of the army; or the sea gets in full tide at the appearance of the moon or proximity to a magnet imparts motion to iron.  In this way, association of the body with the आत्मा creates life in inanimate things and this is what is called sentiency.

PA: It’s the Internal mirror that is covered with varying thickness of dust which is this desire and aversion that causes us to be constantly creating karmaphala ; in turn that causes us to come into human form again and again in this world. The more we have the sense of doership (I) the more dust is accumulated on the mirror.

UB: Agree – key point being made here is that even this internal mirror is part of क्षेत्र and thus inert matter. Just because it is seemingly conscious, it is not to be seen as क्षेत्रज्ञ. From tomorrow, we will take up a list of 20 moral traits or virtues or attributes that need to be acquired as per Gita. Some context setting may be useful – hence sending this message. In वेदान्त, morals are positioned in the context of ब्रह्मज्ञान. On their own, morals carry no meaning though they may have a social utility (thus necessary for survival in a society). In the Gita, we will see morals being conveyed for the first time ONLY AFTER the entire idea of एकत्वम् has been impressed upon. In the absence of ब्रह्मज्ञान context, a typical fictional वार्तालाप on morals may run like this –

UB: Q: Does one need to live a moral life? Is living a moral life a self-evident truism?

A: Yes of course. Why do you ask?

Q: Why is it a self-evident truth?

A: Because parents/ teachers said so and even I feel that living morally make sense.

Q: Why does living morally make sense?

A: Maybe because living morally in society facilitates social cohesion with others in society who will also behave morally with me.

Q: Why is social cohesion important?

A: To enable me to pursue my goals.

Q: Why should you pursue your goals?

A: Because if my goals are achieved, I will be happy.

Q: So morals are necessary to enable you to live happily – Why do you seek happiness?

A: Silly question. Is it not self-evident that all seek happiness?

Q: But why are all people comfortable with happiness?

A: …….. silence……

UB: Most people do not probably get to the last question all their life. But even if they do, the purpose of moral behaviour remains unexplored. From tomorrow, we will take up important verses on virtues that need to be acquired by an अध्यात्म oriented person.

HB: Morality is also for maintaining law and order in society. Most droughts and famines in India are correlated with rise of saints. It’s difficult to be honest when the stomach is hungry

UB: Yes – I did state that morality is for social cohesion. Which is really selfish morality. Or it is not morality at all.  😀. As for correlation between Saints and droughts, that is a new theory for me and I have no comments on this idea.

PK: I do not understand this .., I would answer saying happiness or contentment as a state feels more morally right than discontent / anger / hunger etc. That by itself (doing the right thing)  is not a small reason to live a moral life ..,why make so little of of it in the absence of brahmagyan? It is worth aspiring to anyway

UB: As we go through the so-called virtues as per Gita, we may have interesting days ahead 😀

VB: Why would people be silent on last question?

UB: Mine is a mock conversation based on my experience with people. I am sure every individual is different and while some answers may be given, my sense is that the answers will not really reveal as to why virtues need to be cultivated in the first place. These are seen by most as self evident truths though not practiced universally. My reading of Indian texts is that virtues have a certain purpose in mind and need to be cultivated for this reason only viz the message I wanted to convey. Maybe I have not met bright people or maybe I am infested with too much तमोगुण 😀 😀.

PK: Amen … the founding fathers of the US constitution in the Declaration of Independence stated ” … the unalienable rights which have been given to all human beings by their Creator, and which governments are created to protect are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness”. I have always found it cool that USA is the only country where the pursuit of happiness is written and a right to be protected …

UB: There is a Will Smith movie by this name.  So now I know why they named it this way. 👍🏼. Essentially, happiness means survival with dignity if I take the movie as an example where the hero strives hard and beats odds to finally able to live a successful life. Good movie. One way a Constitution can lay itself out is with this premise – there is food in this world and there are people with their individuality. All people deserve to eat food and pursue their individual trait. And all people have to stay together. So let us live peacefully with each other so that both of us are assured of food daily and we can pursue our individuality. Let us not clash with one another since this could create challenges with eating of food daily and make it difficult to pursue our vocations peacefully. This thus makes the constitution a sensible social contract of amity and set of values listed in such a Constitution will be derived accordingly.

UB: When one looks at धर्मशास्त्र, they begin differently. They begin with ब्रह्म by saying that ब्रह्म is everything. It was in सत्-चित्-आनन्द. And in this state, ब्रह्म willed – Let Me Be Many. And projection happened. And 24 तत्व happened,……. So Earth happened. ब्रह्म is present in all plants, trees, animals and humans. Somehow these beings forgot their original state of सत्-चित्-आनन्द. And they became limited. In all these births, all beings are thus inherently free.  All are ब्रह्म. Purpose of life for all is to regain our original state of सत्-चित्-आनन्द. If this is a preamble of a Constitution, one can imagine that the set of morals,  virtues,  etc will become different from one which seeks to focus on maintaining an amicable social contract. So धर्मशास्त्र prescribes set of duties that each needs to focus on daily, in a society, in a family,  etc on a daily basis so that All eventually become ब्रह्म. So virtues are derived from such duties which in turn are prescribed to regain our ब्रह्म state.

UB: अमानित्वमदम्भित्वमहिंसा क्षान्तिरार्जवम्। आचार्योपासनं शौचं स्थैर्यमात्मविनिग्रहः।।13.8।।

13.8 Absence of concept (not wanting others to know one’s virtues (अमानित्वम्), absence of hypocrisy (not wanting others to know virtues one does not possess) (अदम्भित्वम्), अहिंसा, accommodation (patience & understanding) (क्षान्ति:), straight-forwardness (आर्जवम्), service of the teacher (आचार्य उपासनं), cleanliness (शौचं), steadfastness (स्थैर्यम्), self-discipline (आत्म-विनिग्रहः).

UB: 13:8 (1) – Now that क्षेत्र and its विकार have been explained, we are being given a list of 20 virtues to cultivate. These are referred to as ज्ञान meaning that knowing and living these virtues is akin to ज्ञान and one who lives these is called as ज्ञानी. Learning and living by these form the core or essence of अध्यात्म विद्या. Any other type of trait may give us access to a विद्या that may be essential to sustain our survival but not necessarily be useful from an अध्यात्म विद्या lens. Today, we will take up 9 attributes found in this verse word by word.

UB: 13:8(2): 1) अमानित्वम् – absence of any idea of mine. मान means mine but one who has अमानित्वम् has no sense of mine over anything in the world. मान is the most subtle substance and represents the root of our misery. An officer working for 50 years in an office uses table & chair but when he retires, he happily leaves them in office even though he took good care of these in all the years he was working. Same goes for one who has अमानित्वम् vis a vis people or objects of this world. He works with them as part of his धर्म but does not get struck with them.

2) अदम्भित्वम् – absence of pride. मान, referred to earlier, if deepened graduates into pride/ arrogance. रावण is a प्रतीक of दम्भ and despite possessing superior intellect, he regressed.

3) अहिंसा – When pride intensifies, one resorts to हिंसा if one does not obtain what one needs. Such हिंसा may be done through मनसा, वाचा or क्रिया. On the other hand, one who does not possess ego or pride remains in an अहिंसा mode all the time. If श्रीकृष्ण is eulogising अहिंसा, why is He pushing अर्जुन towards हिंसा? Answer is – श्रीकृष्ण is goading अर्जुन towards धर्म and when one does धर्म, one is practicing अहिंसा only.  This is a long topic but I will leave it at that here.

UB: 13:8 (3) – The meaning of क्षान्ति: viz accommodative attitude will obviouly follow one who is established in अहिंसा. Next is आर्जवम् viz being straight forward or living without a lowly agenda. What is inside is outside and vice versa for such people. There are no hidden agenda for such people and their thinking therefore is focussed and transparent, even to themselves, rather than convoluted or warped.

UB: 13:8 (4) – आचार्य उपासनं meaning service of teachers. गुरू-शिष्य परंपरा is a hollowed tradition in India since millennia. The reason is obvious – अध्यात्म ज्ञान is a very subtle विद्या and one can thus learn this only from someone who is either a ज्ञानी or one who has spent longer years doing साधना and thus can share his experiences which can benefit the student. Self-learning is perceived as much more difficult in this discipline. If one does not have access to गुरू, one may look at the Universe with a keen insight on the lines of 24 गुरू of श्री दत्तात्रेय (you can find this on the blog or on Google).

UB: 13:8 (5) – शौचं means both बाह्य & आंतरिक cleanliness and the meaning is self-evident. स्थैर्यम् means one who is focussed having a स्थिर बुद्धि. If we take up a certain course of action, we remain focussed fully on it and do not stop midway or get distracted or give justifications to move away from chosen path. If we show this attitude for small things too, we can extend this to आध्यात्म विद्या too.  Last in this verse is self-discipline viz आत्म-विनिग्रहः. Here self-control means ability to have control over operation of one’s own senses and one is not in control of them, one can forget to achieve even material goals what to say of अध्यात्म goals.

UP: Brahma created chetana/life “evolved” it into human beings with analysing power and now through science and spirituality is making human to understand and become brahma itself.. Bhagwan ajab teri leela😃🙏🏽..

UB: 😀

PK: The cool thing is ” it says inalienable tights given by the Creator ” … beyond just a government document .. maybe a hint of Brahmgya by the founding fathers maybe? 😃😃

UB: Maybe 😀😀

UB: इन्द्रियार्थेषु वैराग्यमनहङ्कार एव च। जन्ममृत्युजराव्याधि दुःखदोषानुदर्शनम्।।13.9।।

13.9 Indifference to the objects of the senses (इन्द्रियार्थेषु वैराग्यम्) and also absence of arrogance (अनहङ्कार एव च); perception of (अनुदर्शनम्) problem (दोष) of sorrow (दुःख) in birth-death (जन्ममृत्यु), old age-disease (जरा व्याधि).

UB: 13:9 (1) – 1) इन्द्रियार्थेषु वैराग्यम् means one is indifferent to the attractions or pulls of sense objects. One eats but to satisfy hunger, one earns but accepts money as an outcome of work done, one enjoys scenery or a good movie but does not stay in it even after the event is over.

2) There is a story of two ब्रह्मचारी waiting to cross an overflowing river when a girl approaches them seeking their help to cross the river. One of them refuses immediately aware of the instructions of his गुरू not to touch a girl while the other helps the girl by putting her on his shoulders and crosses over. The other is upset, keeps on staring at this guy all the time they were walking back towards the Ashram. After a while, he asks how the other felt having a girl in close contact with him but the other merely smiles. Once both reach the Ashram, the angry man complains to the गुरू. The गुरू looks at both of them, smiles and replies that while the one who lifted the girl has moved on from the incident, the angry disciple is still holding on to the thought about the girl and her contact with the fellow disciple. Message is – Act and move on.

UB: 13:9 (2) – 2) अनहङ्कार एव च – Absence of अहङ्कार means absence of the idea of “I”. Thinking always that “I am doing” or “I am working” or “I am smart” or “I am dumb” means to live in a state of self-obsession. Whatever is in क्षेत्र is not our “I” but we make this mistake and thus suffer. रामकृष्ण परमहंस used to refer to himself as “this” pointing to his body whenever he was referring to himself as not as “I” or “me”.

UB: 13:9 (3) – 3) जन्म मृत्यु जरा व्याधि दुःख-दोष अनुदर्शनम् – One must always continually view birth, death, old age or illness as a cause of sorrow. If one is not sufficiently repulsed by the thought that I have to go through these on account of being born, one will not be able to be convinced of the need to get out of this cycle. This is not to be seen as a negative attitude but more of recognizing the limitations of life obsessed with body orientation and thus getting inspired by people who are able to get out of it. We often see people in deep sickness express a desire to die rather than continue living with sickness or a वैराग्य mode after visiting a funeral. However, this mood goes away once the scene changes and one is back from the mood of श्मशान वैराग्य (viz temporary) to the usual obsessions of the body/mind.

MK: 👍🙏👏 very nice way to justify that we should have an inborn desire to get out of  the rebirth cycle….it has crossed my mind many times in the past why won’t the soul want to come back …when you can enjoy good wine, travel places, enjoy wonderful moments with people you love! Just do your karma well so that you are born at the right place 😄 On the other hand, if we keep sorrows of life in focus as a reminder to get out of this cycle, we are getting inspired by sad and fearful events, which should not be the case either!

UB: 😀😀 Indeed it is a tough one. Maybe the only way to see this is that there is no guarantee that we will be born as a human. 😀

VB: Death should be rejoicing. As you have left current life, maybe permanently. Birth should be looked at as an opportunity to get out of the cycle. Once you are born, anyways no point being sorrowful about it. Die has been cast. Do your best. Sorrow is for the people who get impacted by the death. No amount of Gyan abt anything can alleviate their pain. We should be happy for the person who left. Theoretically.

UB: 😀😀 Contrarian thinking

PK: Satyavachan … fully agree .. will add that might as well try to be as joyous as feasible in life … no point in grumpy .., die  has been cast anyway and death and taxes are inevitable 😃😃

PA: 👍👍👍 It is said that Kabir used to meditate mostly near or on the cremation ground. Actually being there one is immediately reminded of the fragility of life and actually the best prayers are held there as your mind is also focused because you are all of a sudden serious. As soon as one goes our slowly the mind body sensations take over and then it’s the same story. Actually trying to just visualize and refer to oneself allways on third person as Ramakrishna is sort of cool as perhaps by this practice you can slowly develop this living reality that you really are a part of a film and you just need or do the part the best and move on.  Ni point hanging on to anything thing!

PA: VB: 👏🏻👏🏻

UP: Those are the desires n ills done by body. Y does the soul have to suffer for that.. 😃.. Is the demarcation between soul and body clear? Must be mentioned somewhere. Mentioning body soul demarking is off track now may be. But just put up my thought..

UB: We will come to that part later

UB: Post comments by VB and PK,  I relooked at the translation and realized that I may not have translated properly. Apologies for this. This verse is not saying that we should view life with sorrow. Whether we view life as sorrowful or joyful is a personal mind-job and irrelevant really 😀. Essentially, भगवान् is saying that one must be constantly aware of दोष (which may be taken as limitation) involved if one is caught in cycle of birth, death, disease, old age and sorrows experienced life after life. Birth, death, etc are experiences we gain since anyone with a body will be naturally disposed to these states. If one is able to realize this दोष that is innate in body orientation, one will work towards becoming bodiless or निर्गुण. Whatever trait we acquire, it should push us to seek oneness, it should keep us reminding about oneness and it should make us deepen ourselves into oneness. The gold standard is that we must yearn towards ब्रह्मज्ञान. Any orientation is fine as long as the trait keeps us on the end goal. Krishna has given 20 and we can add a few more too as per our liking as long as the target is clear.

UB: असक्तिरनभिष्वङ्गः पुत्रदारगृहादिषु। नित्यं च समचित्तत्वमिष्टानिष्टोपपत्तिषु।।13.10।।

13.10 Absence of ownership (असक्ति), non-identification (अनभिष्वङ्गः) with son (i.e. offspring पुत्र), wife (i.e. spouse दार), home and the rest (गृह आदि-षु), and continual equanimity of mind (सम-चित्तत्वम्) towards attainment of (उपपत्तिषु च) the desirable and the undesirable (इष्ट-अनिष्ट:).

मयि चानन्ययोगेन भक्तिरव्यभिचारिणी। विविक्तदेशसेवित्वमरतिर्जनसंसदि।।13.11।।

13.11 Unswerving (अव्यभिचारिणी) भक्ति unto Me (मयि) through a योग (vision of identity/ समाधि) in which there is no another (अनन्ययोगेन च), disposition to repair to (सेवित्वम्) a quiet place (विविक्त-देश), not longing for (अरति:) the company of people (जनसंसदि).

UB: 13:10/11 (1) – 1) असक्ति meaning complete absence of longing for or attachment towards anyone or anything belonging to the world. While one can and must engage with the world with joy and love, one must not long for it and get disturbed in their absence or get too excited in their presence.

2) अनभिष्वङ्ग: means non-identification towards kids, spouse, home, etc. One lives these relationships with full धर्म and with joy but does not define their identity as father of someone or wife/husband of someone. One just lives in a house but living does not make the house as mine just like living in a hotel does not make it mine. My identity does not depend on where I stay or whom I am related to. These relationships were not there when I was born and will cease after their time gets exhausted; these are no different from the relationships we strike in a train journey; they are wonderful relationships while the journey lasts but we know all through the journey that this will come to an end. Maybe this is why we enjoy train relationships much better than those that are perceived to last.

UB: 13:10/11 (2) – 1) To maintain equanimity of mind viz सम-चित्तत्वम् on a continual basis towards attainment of इष्ट & अनिष्ट, desirable and undesirable. Pursue धर्म at all times and let the mind not fall prey to attractions towards इष्ट and prejudice towards अनिष्ट.

2) Continual focus or भक्ति unto भगवान् – nothing else excites him. We discussed the idea of अनन्ययोग earlier in Ch 9.  Whatever such a person may be doing externally, such a person is FULL-TIME focussed on Him only at all times. This also means that whether a person pursues ज्ञान योग or कर्म योग or ध्यान योग, भक्ति is an essential ingredient in all of them. A ज्ञानी with no भक्ति is useless since that will be akin to पुस्तक ज्ञान only.

UB: 13:10/11 (3) – 3) Disposition to repair to (सेवित्वम्) a quiet place (विविक्त-देश). Avoid public except when needed. An ideal life is one which sensibly shuttles between प्रवृति viz action orientation towards fulfilment of धर्म and निवृति viz retiring from society for ध्यान and विचार. For a अज्ञान साधक, too much of प्रवृति will lead to disease/ decay while too much of निवृति will promote तमस्/ depression. Balance is thus key here.

4) Not longing for (अरति:) the company of people (जनसंसदि). It does not mean that he hates people. He in fact sees all others too as Himself only but avoids people who are divisive or do not dwell on परब्रह्म. Such company does not add value or in fact could lead him astray and he therefore stays away from such people. Cultivation of सत्संग is key for acquiring ज्ञान.

PA: 👍👍👍 satsang – keeping company of people like in this group is definitely a key part of the spiritual growth. It’s emphasized a lot in The Guru Granth. It is the constant association dwelling  contemplation internalization and practicing in life that helps in the journey

PA: Bhai prapat mahuke dehuria, Gobind milan ke eh terri baria, Avar kaaj terai kitai na kaam, Mil sadh sangat bhaj kewal Naam – You have obtained the human body, this is your opportunity to meet the Lord of the World. All other works are of no avail to you. Join the society of godly persons and meditate on the one true Name. As you said the gold standard is to attain brahm gyan 👍👍👍 Oneness. It’s the central idea that everything which we think to be constant changes as we take it to the extreme or say the so called happiness which we experience today because of a situation that has come to us has the inherent unhappiness in it eventually.. when it’s taken from us. Finally if we get fed up of this game we are ready to be transformed – very difficult game but that’s what it comes to. The book is Nowhere to go but in

UB: How can it be difficult to find that which you always are?  Says Osho 👍🏼👍🏼. It is easy really,  ….. or is it?  😀

PA: 👏🏻👏🏻👍. https://youtu.be/z6QNDIo-xeI. A very nice 10 minutes talk

UB: PA – I will need a lot of help from day after tomorrow. The verses are very tough and conceiving of commentary is a massive struggle. These are the verses which have led to multiple disciplines like अद्वैत, विशिष्ट अद्वैत, सांख्य, etc to have come about in India since multiple interpretations are possible. So I need to give a disclaimer – Please do not take me seriously on what I write over the next few days 😀😀. So need you and others to join-in and point out any (or many) obvious errors.

PA: My dear UB rest assured please feel relaxed about this as you are doing a commendable service 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 Will try to post from yogananda for those verses if it would help would it verse 14 onwards?

UB: Yes – it will certainly help

PK: Very interesting .., and I can kinda see how it’s easy to be lured by material matters 😃😃… I am still debating whether this transformation is a slow and steady incremental process or an instantaneous change .., maybe the choice is also based on one’s natural inclinations … I definitely don’t seem to find this instantaneous illumination ..,more like two steps forward and 1.75  steps back or lateral 😃

PK: Amen UB … most  of us ( except you and Peru) have so limited knowledge that learning anything is a better bet than not doing anything 😃😃😃

UB: 👍🏼👍🏼😀 It should be fun…..

PA: The mind is like a small child and it does NOT create problems rather it is The problem. Imagine if we could just live in this awareness of complete acceptance of things as they are instead of colouring interpreting stamping and labeling it all the time. It definitely would be a blissful life as we would be always at peace and calm.  Another short video from Eckhard tolle. https://youtu.be/RwNk76JK_oc

PA: Amen PK 🙏🏻🙏🏻

UB: अध्यात्मज्ञाननित्यत्वं तत्त्वज्ञानार्थदर्शनम्। एतज्ज्ञानमिति प्रोक्तमज्ञानं यदतोन्यथा।।13.12।।

13.12 Being always centered on the knowledge of I (अध्यात्मज्ञान-नित्यत्वं), seeing the goal of knowledge of the Truth (goal being complete freedom) (तत्त्वज्ञान अर्थ दर्शनम्)- this is (एतद्) declared to be (इति प्रोक्तम्) ज्ञान, and what is (यद्) contrary to it (अत: अन्यथा) is अज्ञान (meaning obstacle to ज्ञान).

UB: 13:12 (1) – 1) अध्यात्मज्ञान-नित्यत्वं means that one is always focussed on अध्यात्मज्ञान. He reads, talks, thinks, works, evaluates everything from the prism of अध्यात्मज्ञान. Nothing else appeals to such a person. When one reads the शास्त्र, one reads about various कर्म, both नित्यकर्म  & नैमित्तिक कर्म mandated for people from all walks of life. These include नित्य संध्यावंदन, नित्य अध्ययन of शास्त्र, पूजा during festivals, periodic visit to तीर्थ स्थल, etc. The idea is to be in touch with अध्यात्म  क्रिया continually so that one is close of acts that trigger अध्यात्म विद्या.  One is expected to do this not out of fear or for a happy marriage or well being of kids but to be in constant touch with अध्यात्म ideas conveyed in the शास्त्र. First do these as a cultural practice but slowly as experience of life grows, these become our आलंबन (support) for अध्यात्म वृद्धि and over time, such practices become our स्वरूप भाव meaning our naturally inclined self-expressions. If these are not done, there is a greater probability that one MAY get carried away by the लौकिक आकर्षण and the opportunity obtained by one born as a मनुष्य is lost – one has to start over again after many lives.

UB: 13:12 (2) – 2) तत्त्वज्ञान अर्थ दर्शनम् means his only लक्ष्य of life is तत्त्वज्ञान. And what is the लक्ष्य of तत्त्वज्ञान? मुक्ति or कैवल्य or मोक्ष. All pursuit of life is geared towards this लक्ष्य. There is none other. This is not meant to be a past-time or an academic pursuit done to kill boredom during old age or an intellectual pursuit to argue with others 😊. This is a life long obsession and every act of mine, every conversation I make, every statement I utter, every smile I give,  every slap I take, every book I read, etc., is geared towards one goal only – to attain मुक्ति. However, if this clarity of perspective is absent, even if one takes on these attributes visibly to outside world or to fool ourselves, these will be wasted efforts only. लक्ष्य drives the कर्म and कर्म without लक्ष्य is akin to moving boulders up & down the mountain daily – it is hard labour, intense activity, seemingly disciplined but has no value at all.

UB: 13:12 (3) – भगवान् makes the point that whosoever works on these 20 attributes is pursuing ज्ञान. Whosoever is pursuing anything else is not pursuing ज्ञान – he or she is just living an animal life which is a life merely meant for survival or sensual pleasure. Thus, the opposite of every word discussed thus far represents living in अज्ञान.   People living in अज्ञान can never hope to know about क्षेत्रज्ञ. They will experience happiness or misery as the situations bring to their life but are unable to cross the wall of अज्ञान since the qualities required for अध्यात्मज्ञान are absent in them.

PA: Wonderful 👏🏻👏🏻

MK: *प्रभु का रास्ता बड़ा सीधा है और बड़ा उलझा भी….*

 *बुद्धि से चलो तो बहुत उलझा,*

*….और भक्ति से चलो तो बड़ा सीधा..!!*

*विचार से चलो तो बहुत दूर ,*

*…और भाव से चलो तो बहुत पास…!!*

*नजरो से देखो तो कण कण मे ,*

*…औरअंतर्मन से देखो तो जन जन में…!!!*

 A very simple explanation 😊to a very difficult path

MK: UB, 👍👏👏 for all explanations!! PK, have you read ‘The power of Now’ by Eckhart Tolle…it’s a good one !! I think he has written another book…don’t know the name though!

PA: Yes MK have read it great book!!! the new one is called the new earth 🌏

MK: 👍👍

UB: 👍🏼👍🏼👏🏼

UB: ज्ञेयं यत्तत्प्रवक्ष्यामि यज्ज्ञात्वाऽमृतमश्नुते। अनादिमत्परं ब्रह्म न सत्तन्नासदुच्यते।।13.13।।

13.13 I shall declare (तद् प्रवक्ष्यामि) what is to be known (यद् ज्ञेयं), knowing which (यद् ज्ञात्वा) one attains (अश्नुते) the immortal self (अमृतम्). That (तद्) is beginningless (अनादिमत्) and the Highest ब्रह्म (परं ब्रह्म); said to be (उच्यते) neither that is (न सत्) nor is not (न असत्).

सर्वतः पाणिपादं तत्सर्वतोऽक्षिशिरोमुखम्। सर्वतः श्रुतिमल्लोके सर्वमावृत्य तिष्ठति।।13.14।।

13.14 Everywhere are Its hands and feet (सर्वतः पाणिपादं); Its eyes, heads and mouths (अक्षि-शिरो-मुखम्) are everywhere (सर्वतस्); Its ears are everywhere (सर्वतः श्रुतिमन्) in the लोक; and It exists (तिष्ठति) pervading all things (सर्वम् आवृत्य ).

सर्वेन्द्रियगुणाभासं सर्वेन्द्रियविवर्जितम्। असक्तं सर्वभृच्चैव निर्गुणं गुणभोक्तृ च।।13.15।।

13.15 It appears as the attributes (गुण आभासं) of all the senses (सर्व इंद्रिय), and yet devoid of (विवर्जितम्) the senses (सर्व इंद्रिय), detached (असक्तं) and yet sustains all (सर्वभृत् एव च), free from the गुण (निर्गुणं) and yet experiencing the गुण (गुण भोक्तृ च);

UB: 13:13/15 (1) – Now that we have dealt with क्षेत्र & ज्ञान, we now deal with ज्ञेयं (what needs to be known) viz क्षेत्रज्ञ, the real core of Truth and the real topic of the उपनिषद्. This क्षेत्रज्ञ is अनादि. Once you know क्षेत्रज्ञ, you become अमृतं or eternal. Knowing here does not mean knowing as “information” but to ensure that the ज्ञान becomes our अनुभव. This क्षेत्रज्ञ is neither सत् nor असत्. What does this mean? Everything in the Universe exists – thus Universe and its constituent parts are सत्. On the other hand, one will not find a human with horns; hence a human with horns does not exist and thus is असत्. So भगवान् is neither सत् nor असत् – how is this possible? He does not exist in the way Universe exists. Everything in the Universe can be perceived by the senses or through inference (like a black hole which one cannot see but its presence can be inferred). भगवान् is not सत् in the manner of the Universe as we perceive it. Does it mean that भगवान् is असत्?  Again the answer is NO since the whole universe and experiential realm exists because of भगवान्. Hence the भगवान् is not असत् too. सत् & असत् are also explained as cause and effect and He is neither to be seen as cause nor as an effect – long logic is used to explain this but I will skip this for now. One can however sense that उपनिषद् does not see consciousness or क्षेत्रज्ञ as coming from matter since it is ruled out as being an effect and it is अनादि.

UB: 13:13/15 (2) – भगवान् is present everywhere and this is figuratively given as भगवान् having hands, eyes, ears, etc everywhere. Similarly, when we witness the Universe, we see form, we see colours, we see sounds, we see movement, etc. Thus, since भगवान् is everywhere, we can logically infer that भगवान् has form, भगवान् has movement,  etc. However, the verses state that भगवान् is pervading everything just like space pervades everything. Thus, whatever we see as form, sounds, hands,  legs,  etc, क्षेत्रज्ञ pervades it too.

UB: 13:13/15 (3) – We act through the senses and since क्षेत्रज्ञ is within us, can we say that क्षेत्रज्ञ has senses?  No – since क्षेत्रज्ञ is devoid of senses. क्षेत्रज्ञ is an असक्त meaning that it does not get associated with anything but owing to its presence, the क्षेत्र is activated to act and do things. It also appears as if it is experiencing all emotions, feelings, etc but on its own, गुण does not belong to क्षेत्रज्ञ. A lotus remains a bud but blooms majestically when the Sun comes out. While the Sun may be seen as cause of blooming of lotus, the Sun did not rise to bloom the lotus – the Sun came as per its धर्म while the lotus bloom happened since this is dependent on क्षेत्रज्ञ.  क्षेत्रज्ञ is असक्त: just like the Sun in the above example represents an असक्त trait. These seem like puzzling verses but the verses ahead will clarify how to appreciate the ideas given here.

VB: Aham agyani asmi

UB: 😀😀😀We all are…..  And now we KNOW more clearly. 😀

PA: Same idea in one of the lines of the night prayer: You have thousands of eyes, and yet You have no eyes. You have thousands of forms, and yet You do not have even one. sehas thav nain nan nain hehi thohi ko sehas moorath nanaa eaek thuohee |

UB: 👍🏼👍🏼👏🏼

MK: 👍👏🙏 Seems like क्षेत्रज्ञ is like electricity or battery in a robot and भगवान is like the main grid providing electricity to क्षेत्रज्ञ ;)) the question is the origin of क्षेत्रज्ञ? Was Bhagwan angry with that part of the spark and threw it in the world to learn 😄

PA: 👍😄

UB: Do hold on but keep the question alive – an interesting perspective will come about in the next few days. Be prepared for longer commentaries….

UB: बहिरन्तश्च भूतानामचरं चरमेव च। सूक्ष्मत्वात्तदविज्ञेयं दूरस्थं चान्तिके च तत्।।13.16।।

13.16 It is outside (बहि:) and inside (अन्त: च) all beings (भूतानाम्); is whatever moves (चरम्) or does not move (अचरं एव च). It is subtle (सूक्ष्मत्वात्), it is (तद्) thus not knowable (अविज्ञेयं). It is (तद्) also (च) far away (दूरस्थं), and yet near (अन्तिके च).

अविभक्तं च भूतेषु विभक्तमिव च स्थितम्। भूतभर्तृ च तज्ज्ञेयं ग्रसिष्णु प्रभविष्णु च।।13.17।।

13.17 It remains (स्थितम्) undivided (अविभक्तं) and yet seemingly (इव च) divided (विभक्तम्) among beings(भूतेषु), this is the one (तद् ज्ञेयं) who sustains beings (भूतभर्तृ) and is their devourer (ग्रसिष्णु) and creator (प्रभविष्णु च).
UB: 13:16/17 (1) – This क्षेत्रज्ञ is everywhere; both outside and inside just like electricity is both outside the bulb and inside. This क्षेत्रज्ञ is present in non-moving like trees as well as moving like animals and humans. This क्षेत्रज्ञ is both far and near in the sense that viewed from a स्थूल दृष्टि, भगवान् is far away but viewed from सूक्ष्म दृष्टि, She is very near to you. So why is She unknown? All one needs is to develop a दृष्टि to see It. It is सूक्ष्मत्वात्, it is subtle and till the mind is made subtle too, It remains unknown. As स्वामि कृष्णानन्द says, our लौकिक दृष्टि is upside down that is more used to seeing gross than subtle and unless this habitual orientation is addressed, we will remain beings living with a स्थूल दृष्टि.
UB: 13:16/17 (2) – क्षेत्रज्ञ appears as divided among all but in reality, It is not so. Our hands do certain kind of acts, our legs do certain other kind of acts and while they seem divided, there is a single mind that operates all these parts. Taking this idea further, क्षेत्रज्ञ operates among all beings simultaneously and only seemingly appears as divided like electricity appears as divided among the fan, lamp, etc in a room. It is one reality that operates within all simultaneously. The possibility that this दृष्टि offers is enormous. If we are able to tap into this channel of inter-connectivity, the idea that one can know the thoughts and ideas of another does not appear exotic (at least in theory). Distance is an irrelevant factor since all we need is to connect to this “neural Wi-Fi” that all the bodies tap into.
UB: 13:16/17 (3) – It creates, It sustains and It devours. The ब्रह्म-विष्णु-रुद्र तत्व that operate at the Universal level also operate within us. As they say, we are not born of our own accord nor do we exit out of our own. It is the क्षेत्रज्ञ that is the one in whose presence all these happen just like the presence of the Sun ensures that a seed planted in the soil becomes a plant, life of a plant is sustained by the Sun and eventually the plant merges into the soil owing to the Sun itself. Looking at the Universe from the point of क्षेत्रज्ञ, we get a unique vision where we can see that क्षेत्रज्ञ in plants sustain life but क्षेत्रज्ञ in animals or humans devours itself as present in plants. Thus, क्षेत्रज्ञ present within food makes it possible for life to sustain life within other forms. We can thus see that क्षेत्रज्ञ creates life, sustains life as well as devours Itself – or does It? 😊😊
UB: 13:16/17 (4) – Is the Sun outside a क्षेत्र (field) or is the क्षेत्र inside the Sun? Looking at it one way, Sun seems outside the क्षेत्र but is the Sun really outside? Where does the boundary of Sun end and Sunrays begin? If we define Sun by the entire area till which place its sphere of influence exists, Sun in that case includes our entire solar system. If Sun is really outside, how can any “outside” entity sustain life in others like plants or humans? Clearly, our Sun has “something” and the plants also have “something” and both these “something’s’ connect with one another. So is this “something” different in both of them? Looking deeply, one does have to reach a conclusion that Sun is both outside as well as inside.
UB: 13:16/ 17 (5) – But while the Sun is स्वतन्त्र, क्षेत्र is dependent or अस्वतन्त्र. While Sun can live on its own, a क्षेत्र cannot. Take this further (sorry Priya for use of low medical-iteracy भाषा😊), does our heart beat on account of life within us or is the presence of life within us making our heart beat continuously? If we thus take our human body as क्षेत्र, is there a Sun-like principle that brings all diverse parts with diverse functions like heart, intestines, brain, veins, etc to work together in close coordination? As per वेद, it is in the presence of a क्षेत्रज्ञ that all this burst of activity happens within all क्षेत्र in such an integrated manner.
UB: 13:16/17 (6) – This part is my personal mind-flight 😊. Let us do a take on accidents with this दृष्टि – Can we say that if a person walking on the road gets hit by a car whose driver dozed off at that moment, is it the क्षेत्रज्ञ in one that triggered क्षेत्रज्ञ within another to make the accident possible? 😊😊😊 Who decides? Why does that “who” decide? Or does no one decide and the धर्म of both bodies at a certain time make so-called accidents happen? Enough for today…….
PK: I am totally confused … is shetragya the same in all ? If shetragya is the root of all why do we concern ourselves with good and evil … everything is pre- ordained also implies that nothing is worth striving for ? What are we striving for – recognizing our own shetragya ? … this is going in circles suddenly #totally confused
UB: Yes – this is confusing. Why do you think I was giving multiple disclaimers in the past few days? 😊 These verses form the core of the Upanishads and what one sees is a large number of contradictions put together. And it is tough to make sense of this. When you say “we” concern ourselves with good and evil, who is this “we”? Do hold on to these questions as more verses attempt to address this very aspect (or confuse us more). All I can promise is that by verse 24, all this started making sense to me or should I say that I have learnt to accept the proposition given here. Of course, what has made sense to me is a factor of my own level of sense which may not make sense to another. 😀 (cannot help giving disclaimers)